[joe9090]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11892441/Transgender-athlete-46-wins-female-NYC-cycling-event-says-feels-like-superhero.html

Topic

[fb]

The race in question was

The race in question was actually, a gender neutral (all open) race, with mostly male participants. Tiffany finished 23:d. Se link to results in my other comment.

Do you have any basis for your argument? Can you point me to any results at elite level where these supposed differences in aerobic capacity manifest themselves? Pippa York says you are wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abgXEWQPlI

[fb]

For those interested in some

For those interested in some fact, rather than feelings:

1. This was not a womans race, but rather an “all open” race with both male and female riders. There were a total of three women entered. They were not of the same racing category. Tiffany who is a cat 1, placed 23, just ahead of one cat 2 and one cat 3 woman. They all beat out one male rider. Results here: https://legacy.usacycling.org/results/index.php?permit=2023-9625

2. US rules, as far as I know state that once a racer reaches elite level, they have to adhere to the the testosterone levels described eleswhere. Since reaching cat 1 Tiffany has not really “dominated” – rather she has nice/mediocre results. The kind you se from 40+ guys that race elite mens: Her lifetime results here:  https://legacy.usacycling.org/results/index.php?compid=560575

3. For every woman who complains about getting beaten by a trans woman there are examples of the opposite. My wife has also been beaten for a podium spot by a trans woman and my wife just thougt that was great that someone who enjoys cycling and is a good competitor was able to race. Here is a link to what an actual competitor in the race mentioned by the OP thinks about it: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqIrtOqOzfL/?img_index=1

[wycombewheeler]

NOtotheEU wrote:

brooksby wrote:

It says she took up the sport aged 40 – six years ago – but I haven’t been able to google how long ago she transitioned.

I’m not sure but in another article it says

“The athlete must demonstrate that their total testosterone level in serum has been below 2.5 nmol/L for a period of at least 24 months and the total testosterone level in serum must remain below 2.5 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.”

so it probably was at least 8 years ago but it could have been many years earlier.

Took up cycling six years ago. I very much doubt she was having blood tests for two years before that on the off chance that she might take up a sport. so racing probably 4 years ago at most.

[Paul J]

Or they can just race in the
Or they can just race in the men’s category (as this issue only affects MaB in any real way). I.e., the “We’re discriminated against by being barred from competing” argument is specious.

I fully support showing all respect possible for a person’s preferred gender identity, but it is simply a cold, hard fact that there are large physiological differences between the MaB and FaB populations, particularly so after puberty, that have significant effects on aerobic capacity and strength, and these differences are not significantly erased by hormone treatment.

It is wrong to throw WaB under the bus, and deny them their protected category.

[hawkinspeter]

wtjs wrote:

wtjs wrote:

male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes

Are there any of the latter?

Yes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuyler_Bailar

[NOtotheEU]

brooksby wrote:

It says she took up the sport aged 40 – six years ago – but I haven’t been able to google how long ago she transitioned.

I’m not sure but in another article it says

“The athlete must demonstrate that their total testosterone level in serum has been below 2.5 nmol/L for a period of at least 24 months and the total testosterone level in serum must remain below 2.5 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.”

so it probably was at least 8 years ago but it could have been many years earlier.

[Rendel Harris]

wtjs wrote:

male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes

Are there any of the latter?

A few, Chris Mosier probably the most notable example: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier

Not many though as far as I’m aware.

[wtjs]

male-to-female athletes might

male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes

Are there any of the latter?

[wtjs]

However, that doesn’t seem to

However, that doesn’t seem to be what most trans athletes desire – as I understand it they wish to be treated the same as if they had been assigned their chosen gender at birth

I’m sure they do, but that’s not what most XX female athletes want as I understand it, or what the World Athletics Council has wisely decided

[hawkinspeter]

VeloUSA wrote:

The controversy will not cease until a third athletic category is added, one for trans athletes.

However, that doesn’t seem to be what most trans athletes desire – as I understand it they wish to be treated the same as if they had been assigned their chosen gender at birth. There’s also the issue that more than three categories may be needed as male-to-female athletes might need to be separated from female-to-male athletes if there’s a big performance advantage one way or the other.

My solution would be to have categories based on a simpler physical attribute such as height or weight depending on what sport it is.

[VeloUSA]

The controversy will not

The controversy will not cease until a third athletic category is added, one for trans athletes.

[brooksby]

It says she took up the sport

It says she took up the sport aged 40 – six years ago – but I haven’t been able to google how long ago she transitioned.

[NOtotheEU]

thax1 wrote:

Well, I’m sure as heil not clicking that link!

Can you post the pertinent details if it’s worth a read.

Maybe this is the perfect use-case for ChatGPT? It can offer a brief précis of the bile of the Daily Mail without me having to boil my eyes afterwards.

Here is the headline and introduction which pretty much sums up the article.

Controversial trans athlete, 46, wins women’s NYC cycling race and says she feels like a ‘superhero’ – as critics warn ‘women’s rights in America are being destroyed’

Tiffany Thomas, 46, dominated the field in an NYC cycling race at the weekend
She took up the sport aged 40 before quickly finding success 
Her success has been criticized amid claims trans athletes hold an unfair advantage in women’s sports

By WILL POTTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 01:24, 23 March 2023 | UPDATED: 12:10, 23 March 2023

[thax1]

Well, I’m sure as heil not

Well, I’m sure as heil not clicking that link!

Can you post the pertinent details if it’s worth a read.

Maybe this is the perfect use-case for ChatGPT? It can offer a brief précis of the bile of the Daily Mail without me having to boil my eyes afterwards.

[Author]

Replies