[JLasTSR]

Do some motorists dislike cyclists because they think our use of the roads is without a legitimate purpose? 

While we see going for a bike ride to enjoy an hour or so riding out as normal behaviour, do they see that as not a legitimate reason for using the road? If someone is dressed in lycra is this antipathy further exacerbated as they are clearly dressed for a sporting endeavour not for going to the shop, place of work, pub, friend’s house? 

If cyclists were perceived as being on essential or unavoidable journeys would it change the perception?

I am not sure it would entirely but I do think there is a feeling among some motorists that cyclists lack legitimacy hence the repeated calls for Tax and Registration and Insurance. Then Cyclists would have to obey the rules of the road wouldn’t they? I mean no car driver has ever sped, jumped a light, have they? People that behave less than well exist in every class of road user. 

I do think the advent of 20mph limits for cars will see cyclists eventually having to observe the 20mph limit as well. When 20mph roads were uncommon it did not matter but as they become more common I think it is inevitable. How they bring it in I don’t know, speedometers on a bike fitted from new would have to happen but what about people like me riding bicycles built in the 1970’s I do have a phone but I don’t always have it with me or turned onto a bike computer app especially if I am miles from home it is then probably on google maps so I don’t get lost.

 

 

Topic

[mattw]

I like your definition of

I like your definition of Middle Aged Man.

Said the 50+ youthful whipper-snapper.

Good comments, too.

[the little onion]

It’s all about “othering” –

It’s all about “othering” – seeing other people as outgroups, the binary opposite of you and people like you. So illegitimate versus legitimate road users. Reckless versus safe. Them not us. Freeloaders versus hard-working. 

 

It’s all constantly reinforced by media, and a lack of empathy or understanding. You never will, nor do you want to, experience their point of view, because their view and experience is not valid. It leads to dehumanising the other.

[JLasTSR]

Good point about deliveroo

Good point about deliveroo and courier riders, that rather shoots my idea down. Ho him back to the drawing board. 

[kingleo]

Winston Churchill got it

Winston Churchill got it right when he abolished road tax, because as he said’ motorists will believe they have moral ownership to  the roads’

[lonpfrb]

Motorcycling has changed a
Motorcycling has changed a lot from being a cheap form of transport open to anyone into a high technology product mainly sold to middle aged men, excepting the delivery riders. Young people can afford cars so get pushed there by parental angst and conformity.
Electric scooters seem to fill the cheap transport niche of 50cc mopeds of old.

[lonpfrb]

The product of mainstream
The product of mainstream media click bait i.e. hate speech to identify an out group now that the law prevents their public disrespect and hatred of protected characteristics.

So they can’t indulge their confirmation bias against your skin colour, race, sexuality, gender but heaven help you for the wrong choice of transport!

No, they haven’t connected this to national success at Olympic level as thinking is a bit of an unwelcome imposition…

Anti-cycling bingo is a badge of ignorance, worn by the MSM and their audience.

Imagine not knowing how your tax is spent and why vehicle excise duty costs more for unsustainable vehicles…

There’s a strong narcissistic tendency
Me! Me! Me! Me!
and sod the public good…

[hawkinspeter]

Tom_77 wrote:

I have occasionally seen people express the view that a bicycle is essentially a child’s toy (much like a space hopper or pogo stick) and that no adult should use one. I don’t think this view is particularly widespread though. There’s no shortage of anger towards Deliveroo cyclists who are clearly cycling for work.

There was an article a while back on the BBC suggesting that cyclists are perceived as free-loading – not paying road tax, jumping queues, etc.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130212-why-you-really-hate-cyclists

That doesn’t make sense to me as why would an adult want to punish children? If an adult is seen playing with a “child’s toy”, then one logical deduction would be that maybe the adult has developmental difficulties and so drivers should take extra care around them – it certainly wouldn’t be an appropriate response to shout at and scare such an individual.

Anyhow, there’s plenty of toys that are popular with children and adults, so who makes them the arbiter of what age is appropriate for the toy? I mean I once completed a jigsaw that said 3-5 years on the box, but I’m pretty cool as it only took me a few hours.

[giff77]

I honestly feel that it’s

I honestly feel that it’s very much a phenomenon that has grown and developed over the last 10/15 years. As a young adult in the eighties I never really heard peers ​grumble about people cycling and if they did it wasn’t to the same levels as we hear today. Even when out on the bike in the seventies I never experienced close passes that have engrained themselves on my formative mind to a level that would put me off cycling.

As a middle aged man I do have experiences of shocking driving behaviours that I can drill down to the minuscule detail that are now permanently etched in my memory and have had days where I’ve been close to feck it,  I’ve had enough and I’m not going to put friends and family through the trauma of my not coming home because of some distracted or vindictive motorist. 

This antipathy has been driven mainly by various columnists over recent years with their uneducated rants and social media with yet even more uneducated posters who have convinced themselves that this information is carved in stone and believe it completely. It shows how persuasive some of the negative arguments have been. Many motorists have become more selfish, aggressive and impatient on the roads which flys in the face of my being taught the three c’s of consideration, care and courtesy many years ago.

I once asked somebody if they were as nasty to other people as they were to those who cycled. They couldn’t give me an answer. 

People have convinced themselves that people who cycle are the pariah of society and that they need taken down a peg or two  in the same way they’ve convinced themselves that there’s also a war on the motorist with speeding fines, ICEs being phased out, LEZs being established, 15 minute cities  the list is endless.

 

[Tom_77]

I have occasionally seen

I have occasionally seen people express the view that a bicycle is essentially a child’s toy (much like a space hopper or pogo stick) and that no adult should use one. I don’t think this view is particularly widespread though. There’s no shortage of anger towards Deliveroo cyclists who are clearly cycling for work.

There was an article a while back on the BBC suggesting that cyclists are perceived as free-loading – not paying road tax, jumping queues, etc.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130212-why-you-really-hate-cyclists

 

[CyclingGardener]

This. Cycling in work clothes
This. Cycling in work clothes, big boots and obviously carrying tools, I’m the 2-wheel equivalent of ‘white van (wo)man’. Still get close passed/cut up, even by people in white vans!

[chrisonabike]

That’s a good observation.  I

That’s a good observation.  I’d suggest that motorcyclists are fairly rare (figures I can google suggest around about the cyclists making journeys mark – about 1% or so) so – like cyclists (outside of some culture war / media frenzy) – perhaps most people don’t actually think about them much if at all?

Perhaps there is more parity with cars etc. – since “they pay tax” / “they have a licence”.  Two other “niggles” with cyclists aren’t there – motorbikes don’t tend to hold up cars (so not “in the way”) and I don’t recall motorcyclists filtering on the inside, more overtaking.  Likely this feels safer on a motorbike than a bike.

On “conflict” – while it’s true that drivers often fail to look for / see motorbikes (“Think bike!”) I suspect they’re slightly more visible than cyclists (mostly because lights).  Also they’re a bit more chunky – perhaps that cues “leave extra space”.  Maybe also less likely to mis-estimate their speed (non-cyclists seem pretty bad at doing so with cyclists)?

Motorbikes also come in different categories (also a bit like bikes).  I think the opinions and media reactions are divided between these.

Full power machines appear to get a pass / respect.  Presumably similar to cars e.g. “but licenced, insured, you paid a lot of money for one so that gives you some status etc.” Maybe a certain regard for someone doing something “dangerous” dressed like a riot policeman?

Mopeds – definitely lower status (because seen as cheaper) but probably more acceptable again because “they pay tax” / “they have a licence”.  And of course lots of these folks are more obviously working!

Yoof on scrambler bikes (or stolen machines)?  At least here in Edinburgh people have been injured and indeed at least one killed.  Sometimes gets into the local news.  The focus doesn’t seem to be on the mode of transport so much though…

[JLasTSR]

I agree with all you say, I

I agree with all you say, I just feel there has to be an underlying reason that is the foundation that validates some peoples’ annoyance at the very site of someone on a bicycle. 

Motorcyclists do not seem to get the same bad press for example.

[hawkinspeter]

I don’t think the angry

I don’t think the angry drivers really think much beyond “cyclist in my way” even though their journey is mainly being delayed by all the other drivers.

I suspect that a lot of drivers feel very frustrated from driving in congested traffic and then see cyclists filtering past them, seemingly without a care in the world (I personally enjoy overtaking/filtering past drivers stuck in long queues). The lack of responsibility and expenses for cycling is also a likely antagoniser.

[JLasTSR]

You could well be right about

You could well be right about quite a lot of them.

[brooksby]

Quote:

Do some motorists dislike cyclists because they think our use of the roads is without a legitimate purpose? 

That’s a red herring, IMO.

Many motorists dislike cyclists just because.  They dislike cyclists in normal clothing with panniers and the shopping just as much as a club ride of roadies in lycra.

[Author]

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