[OldRidgeback]

 

A good piece in the Grauniad….

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/aug/08/cycling-growth-uk-risk-left-behind-europe-experts?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1659958084

Topic

[Rendel Harris]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

The Scott Trust’s money initially came from the cotton trade which led the, then, Manchester Guardian, to support the Confederacy and oppose Lincoln.

As usual from this quarter, an utterly disingenuous, very much verging on the dishonest, version of the true facts. The Guardian opposed slavery from 1823 onwards. The “support” the paper gave the Confederacy was to advocate that if the North lifted its sanctions and levies on the South, the South would be in a position quickly to begin abolition itself (this was a view held by, amongst others, William Gladstone). The “opposition” to Lincoln was to criticise the fact that Lincoln suspended some Constitutional freedoms during the Civil War, that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves, and for the fact that Lincoln was prepared to use slavery as a bargaining chip with the Southern states rather than insist its ending was non-negotiable.

Rather more nuanced than “supported the Confederacy and opposed Lincoln.”

[hawkinspeter]

NOtotheEU wrote:

Right, you’re the first name on my list! When I’m in charge . . . . . .

Okay, then you’ll be the first name on my list for ensuring that your basic human needs are satisfied without infringing your human rights or suffering indignity*.

*there may be some seizure of capital though

[NOtotheEU]

hawkinspeter wrote:

NOtotheEU wrote:

Should I be worried? It was confusing and I didn’t really understand the questions!

I think it’s everybody else that needs to be worried

Right, you’re the first name on my list! When I’m in charge . . . . . .

[hawkinspeter]

NOtotheEU wrote:

Should I be worried? It was confusing and I didn’t really understand the questions!

I think it’s everybody else that needs to be worried

[NOtotheEU]

Should I be worried? It was

Should I be worried? It was confusing and I didn’t really understand the questions!

[hawkinspeter]

I think the questions must be

I think the questions must be toned down a bit. There weren’t any questions about seizing the means of production, peasant revolts, putting debtors into work-houses or shipping immigrants to Rwanda, so they’re just focussing on centrism. Nothing about Universal Basic Income or NHS apart from that question about whether rich people should get better health treatments.

[chrisonabike]

I’m not sure he’s worried.
I’m not sure he’s worried.

[hawkinspeter]

chrisonatrike wrote:

chrisonatrike wrote:

Good Lord – I’m more of an “extreme left whinger” than I thought. Maybe everyone’s axes have shifted? Did this before and don’t remember so many questions too.

Well, if enough of us score left-extremist, then maybe we can finally get round to eating the rich

[chrisonabike]

Good Lord – I’m more of an
Good Lord – I’m more of an “extreme left whinger” than I thought. Maybe everyone’s axes have shifted? Did this before and don’t remember so many questions too.

[hawkinspeter]

There’s a reason that people

There’s a reason that people call her the Iron Weathervane

[Simon E]

Awavey wrote:

well I read an article today that said that Liz Truss was the first Conservative PM in the last 30 years who actually was conservative

You mean the Liz Truss who was a Liberal, an anti-monarchist and still in 2016 was a firm Remainer? I wonder how they think she is more of a ‘conservative’ (whatever that is) than her predecessors.

Opinions may vary on just how right-wing the present government is but the policies and dog-whistle populist statements we’ve seen in recent years is a worrying trend that we’ve not seen in this contry for a long time.

Awavey wrote:

on social media platforms, people surround themselves in a bubble with others who only agree with them

As I said before, I’m not sure this is quite as deliberate or strategic – or even as novel – a development as you are suggesting. In previous decades political party and workplace union membership worked in the same way. The British class system and clearly stratified hierarchies in the workplace weren’t created for efficiency or for supportive, egalitarian reasons. And the desire to belong to a group and the concept of ‘them-and-us’ have been around far, far longer than the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_and_out-group

[hawkinspeter]

chrisonatrike wrote:

[quote=chrisonatrike]Let’s get multidimensional! https://www.politicalcompass.org/%5B/quote%5D

That’s a lot of questions – I ended up in the bottom left (-9, -7.79)

[chrisonabike]

Let’s get multidimensional!
Let’s get multidimensional!

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

[hawkinspeter]

Awavey wrote:

well I read an article today that said that Liz Truss was the first Conservative PM in the last 30 years who actually was conservative, so opinions may differ on how “hardline as this lot” actually are or have been or as an old saying said its all true, from a certain point of view. Johnsons period in government fwiw was considered left of true centre politics by those who actually follow these things properly.

on social media platforms, people surround themselves in a bubble with others who only agree with them, they only follow positive reinforcement of ideals they agree with, therefore are shocked to discover there are people outside of their bubble who follow the negative and dont agree with them

I tend to think that the left-centre-right categories aren’t all that useful except for a very sky-high view of matters. I’d agree that Johnson was unusually centre/left for the Tories and if only he had some integrity he may have introduced some reasonable policies.

The problem with using left/right is that the dividing line tends to shift. e.g. The U.S. has Democrats on the left, but they’d be considered hard right anywhere else. Similarly, we have Starmer’s Labour supposedly on the left, but not supporting strikers.

[Awavey]

well I read an article today

well I read an article today that said that Liz Truss was the first Conservative PM in the last 30 years who actually was conservative, so opinions may differ on how “hardline as this lot” actually are or have been or as an old saying said its all true, from a certain point of view. Johnsons period in government fwiw was considered left of true centre politics by those who actually follow these things properly.

on social media platforms, people surround themselves in a bubble with others who only agree with them, they only follow positive reinforcement of ideals they agree with, therefore are shocked to discover there are people outside of their bubble who follow the negative and dont agree with them

[Author]

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