[Jimnm]

Who would be in favour of a change in the law regarding charges against drivers who actually kill cyclists through carelessness! I would say that the minimum charge for causing the death of a cyclist should be at least Manslaughter. The law is far too soft in this regard. You hear of  community service of 200 hours over 12 months and a 2 years driving ban! I personally think it’s bloody outrageous when they have taken a life, which also deeply affects the victim’s family. If the law was tougher then hopefully drivers would be more careful on our roads knowing that they could go to prison for 5 years. Then we might see deaths and injuries to cyclists reduce. Hopefully! 
Comments welcome…

 

Topic

[hawkinspeter]

hirsute wrote:

Maybe I’m being too simplistic but manslaughter is “an alternative verdict that can be returned on a prosecution for murder”

The without intent to kill still requires another crime to have been committed which is the intent side of things as I see it.

From quiff’s link, the second and third bullet points would not involve intent:

Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways:

1. Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.
2. Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill (“gross negligence manslaughter”); and
3. Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death (“unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter”).

The term “involuntary manslaughter” is commonly used to describe manslaughter falling within (2) and (3) while (1) is referred to as “voluntary manslaughter”.

[Hirsute]

Maybe I’m being too

Maybe I’m being too simplistic but manslaughter is “an alternative verdict that can be returned on a prosecution for murder”

The without intent to kill still requires another crime to have been committed which is the intent side of things as I see it.

[quiff]

Murder requires intent to

Murder requires intent to kill or injure, but mansalughter doesn’t necessarily – there is ‘involuntary manslaughter’:  https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter [EDIT – hawkinspeter got there first]

As for the original post, the maximum sentence for death by careless driving is already 5 years (though I accept it’s rarely given). If you started charging mansalughter instead, the maximum would be 18 years, but the real change in practice would likely be the starting point (minimum one year rather than the non-custodial sentences available for death by careless driving). 

[hawkinspeter]

I thought manslaughter is for

I thought manslaughter is for killing without intent to kill? It can be due to gross negligence or for causing death whilst performing another illegal act (e.g. bank robbing). Prior intent would surely be classed as murder?

[BalladOfStruth]

It’d be a start if “death by

It’d be a start if “death by dangerous driving” guidelines were tweaked so that it applied to the scenarios it should – ie, conscious decisions (mobile phone use, speeding, ect) instead of being some impossibly high bar that you have to be doing God-knows-what sort of insane shit to qualify for.

*Inb4 this week’s news story where a driver kills a cyclist by driving down the wrong side of the road, at three times the speed limit, on his phone, whilst drunk, and somehow manages to only get done for “death by careless driving”.

[Hirsute]

The thing with manslaughter

The thing with manslaughter is there has to be prior intent and no one apart from the rare psycho goes out with the intent to kill or injure someone, so that one isn’t going to fly.

There is probably a cycling site or blog that addresses the issue you raise. I’ll have a look over the weekend.

 

[Author]

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