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Rich_cb.
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October 24, 2022 at 12:33 pm #32307
Hirsute
Obviously I am a deeply embedded member of the tofu eating wokerati who reads the odd guardian article, but even so, this did make me laugh out loud.
‘But there is no Safe Mode, just Lunatic Mode’
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Last paragraph is a bit
Last paragraph is a bit disappointing.The fact that people in many other countries get better healthcare than we do means it’s cruel to want to emulate their systems?
If a greater involvement of the private sector leads to fewer people dying unavoidably, as demonstrated in Australia and Germany for example, then who cares if profit is being made?
chrisonabike
The problem is it’s a wildly
The problem is it’s a wildly expensive thing. Currently all taxpayers fund it. The use of the system is unevenly distributed. And it’s not “fair” – because life – so some people will end up using huge sums of money while others will spend money and time avoiding using it. For heavy users of the system many won’t even be able to contribute because they’re too old, young or plain sick to work.
Finally there’s the “how do you keep it honest / efficient / on target” issue. Do you think the power of competition could assist that in whole or part? Or do you think that anything which generates profit for shareholders will at some point prioritise that rather than the “customers” (and / or fighting or making cartels with other companies)?
I don’t think that’s entirely
I don’t think that’s entirely the case.The NHS has consistently underperformed relative to international comparators even during the New Labour years of enormous spending increases.
The system simply isn’t fit for purpose.
Removing political interference and allowing more patient choice will drive standards up far faster and ensure they remain high.
That’s what Germany and Australia have done and it works very well. Instead of continually trying to fix the NHS we should just copy a system that we know works.
“The UK’s NHS performs worse
“The UK’s NHS performs worse than the average in the treatment of 8 out of the 12 most common causes of death, including deaths within 30 days of having a heart attack and within five years of being diagnosed with breast cancer, rectal cancer, colon cancer, pancreatic cancer and lung cancer, despite narrowing the gap in recent years .It is the third poorest performer compared to the 18 developed countries on the overall rate at which people die when successful medical care could have saved their lives (known as ‘amenable mortality’).
It has consistently higher rates of death for babies at birth or just after (perinatal mortality), and in the month after birth (neonatal mortality): 7 in 1,000 babies died at birth or in the week afterwards in the UK in 2016, compared to an average of 5.5 across the comparator countries.”
Compare the UK to Australia and Germany.
We do seem to do better at managing Diabetes and we’re good at generic prescribing but survival from cancer, stroke and heart disease are worse.
hawkinspeter
brooksby wrote:Except our Powers That Be don’t want to come up with any social model to replace the NHS – their preferred model is the US model of paying $1million dollars for childbirth, $1thousand to be picked by an ambulance, that sort of thing…There’s a lot of money to be made from illness, especially with the Tories looking to rip out all the EU worker protection legislation and starving the NHS of money and workers (the NHS being an equal opportunities employer had a large percentage of immigrant workers back in the days of freedom of movement i.e. pre-Brexit).
It’s not just that the Tories want poor people to suffer – they want to make big bucks doing so. Also remember, that with the right-wing, cruelty is its own reward.
That is unfortunately true.
That is unfortunately true.We can move towards the German and Australian models relatively easily though.
Incentivise private health insurance and allow people on NHS waiting lists to access a voucher equivalent to 90% of the NHS cost of their treatment which can be put towards a private operation.
Once enough people have experienced an alternative to the NHS it will lose its quasi religious following and a proper debate can be had about its future.
That’s just the usual trope
That’s just the usual trope rolled out when any NHS reform is suggested.Has any member of the government actually said that on record?
brooksby
Rich_cb wrote:
Rich_cb wrote:The NHS simply can’t continue in its current form. The Australian and German models are both far more successful. The German model, crucially, almost completely removes politicians from the equation. It’s time to abandon the NHS.Except our Powers That Be don’t want to come up with any social model to replace the NHS – their preferred model is the US model of paying $1million dollars for childbirth, $1thousand to be picked by an ambulance, that sort of thing…
Never mind Boris, I liked the
Never mind Boris, I liked the comment that someone made: “a bold decision to choose a billionaire leader in the middle of a cost of living crisis …”
New models would certainly be
New models would certainly be worth looking at. However change would be very hard. The NHS is our biggest employer and one of the few remaining popular touchstones. So – a bit like cars or “the war on some drugs” but much more so – any attempt to change the status quo will sink you as a politician. If you were surprised at how fast Kwarteng and then Truss disappeared that would be as nothing to someone who stood up in Parliament and declared “It’s time to abandon the NHS.”
Secret_squirrel
Ands thats all BS when taken
Ands thats all BS when taken in the context of a covid response that was a million miles away from “normal”
Do try harder.
Secret_squirrel
levestane wrote:… or politicians.Or right leaning semi-trolls mindlessly repeating the lies of their masters. Looking at Rich_CB here.
Secret_squirrel
Rich_cb wrote:
Rich_cb wrote:The NHS simply can’t continue in its current form. The Australian and German models are both far more successful. The German model, crucially, almost completely removes politicians from the equation. It’s time to abandon the NHS.Justify your wild and sweeping statements with actual facts and figures please. Including your definition of successful.
Sniffer
I suspect a big part of
I suspect a big part of Germsn healthcare being better is that they spend more money on healthcare.This is a good source, a bit dated but that keeps Covid effects out.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29It may spend money efficiently, unlike the US, but it spends more per head.
levestane
… or politicians.
… or politicians.
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