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Rich_cb.
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October 24, 2022 at 12:33 pm #32307
Hirsute
Obviously I am a deeply embedded member of the tofu eating wokerati who reads the odd guardian article, but even so, this did make me laugh out loud.
‘But there is no Safe Mode, just Lunatic Mode’
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So when is the master plan
So when is the master plan finally going to be put into action?It’s 12 years and counting…
Alternatively, it’s nonsense.
brooksby
Rich_cb wrote:
Rich_cb wrote:If they can’t do it with an 80 seat majority then when can they do it? It’s just a Labour party ‘boogeyman’ threat.You surely don’t think that they’d do it by actually passing a law and voting on it, out in the open? That might make the public think that they are the Baddies.
They will simply starve it of more and more funding until – well! – it just HAS to be put into the private sector. For its own good.
(With no comment about the choice having been made by them to starve it of funding in the first place…).
hawkinspeter
andystow
hawkinspeter wrote:I do like the idea of a Hindu taking top office on Diwali, though as that puts a nice spin on it. (Got my covid booster in a Hindu temple down the road – I do like their religious imagery though I couldn’t tell you who all the gods are)
hawkinspeter
Rich_cb wrote:
Rich_cb wrote:
It’s just a Labour party ‘boogeyman’ threat.
I hope you’re correct, but my cynicism suggests otherwiseTheBillder
Awavey wrote:
Awavey wrote:what would be the point ? you arent interested in a proper debate on this, or allowing you might change your view from it, as I said at the beginning debates on subjects like this are wholly pointless
Just to repeat: you start by saying that such debate is pointless, but conclude by saying that Johnson was left of centre. Both of these cannot be true at the same time.Awavey wrote:
Awavey wrote:Well dont take my word for it, heres John Rentoul chief political editor at the Independents take… https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/editors-letters/boris-johnson-left-wing-tory-mp-b1840685.htmlNo doubt you’ll accuse him of being too right wing as he supported Blair and New Labour.
Not at all, I just think he’s wrong in his analysis. The key point is this: “if two-thirds of the British people support something, can it really be described as a hard right-wing policy?”.The answer to that is “yes”. A majority view is by no means intrinsically that of the centre.
Where Rintoul is a bit better (though far too brief to be more than trivial) is that the traditional left and right doesn’t really cover issues like Brexit.
But my main point to you was this: you start by saying that such debate is pointless, but conclude by saying that Johnson was left of centre. Both of these cannot be true at the same time.
If you want my view: Johnsonism is a bit closer to the One Nation Tory than most who claim that these days. No comment on his motivation for such policies. And you do have to count deporting if asylum seekers to Rwanda on the other side of the ledger.
And it is very difficult to detect a real compassion for people on the breadline. It’s shameful that so many need food banks – I am embarrassed to be British. Judge a nation by how it looks after its least fortunate. So for me, he’s still right of centre.
If they can’t do it with an
If they can’t do it with an 80 seat majority then when can they do it?It’s just a Labour party ‘boogeyman’ threat.
Awavey
what would be the point ? you
what would be the point ? you arent interested in a proper debate on this, or allowing you might change your view from it, as I said at the beginning debates on subjects like this are wholly pointless
hawkinspeter
Rich_cb wrote:
Rich_cb wrote:I do love the trope that the Tories are going to privatise the NHS. It’s wheeled out continuously but here we are 12 years in and they still haven’t done it. The same goes for the endless comparisons with the US system whilst comparisons with our European neighbours or Antipodean friends are almost never mentioned. Why do you insist on backing a system that causes huge numbers of people to die needlessly? Edit. ‘Othering’ people is never OK btw.They haven’t been able to do it yet.
It’s a classic from the right-wing playbook – intentionally cripple a service (e.g. remove 80% of available NHS workers by erecting barriers to travel) and then when people complain about the poor service, come up with “we’ve got a great plan to fix it – why don’t we make money and get rid of the expensive bits by bringing in ACME Ltd to administer it?”.
You may believe that we’d copy some good ideas from European neighbours, but that’s not how it would play out at all – look at Jacob Rees-Mogg’s plans to rip out the EU workers protections. We’re heading fast for a U.S. style health bankruptcy where the rich can afford health services (despite the rich having much better health outcomes) and the poor will be thrown out on the streets (c.f. mental health services) or at least be one operation away from poverty.
As far as ‘othering’ goes – I’m just calling it as I see it. When politicians such as Braverman can get away with saying that their ultimate dream is to witness a flight sending refugees and asylum seekers to Rwanda, then how do you expect me to think that Tories have any empathy or decency? When Johnson partied whilst relatives were unable to visit dying relatives, just what do you really expect people to think – give him another go at the job?
As long as people are supporting the policies of “I’ve got mine, so screw everyone else”, then they deserve to be called out for supporting inhumane, selfish monsters. I’m not ‘othering’ people because of what they are, but because of what they choose to do.
hawkinspeter
hirsute wrote:I can’t believe that utter facist braverman is back at the home office.She wanted to be granted an injunction on protestors based on what she thought they might do.
It’s a proper shit-show.
I do like the idea of a Hindu taking top office on Diwali, though as that puts a nice spin on it. (Got my covid booster in a Hindu temple down the road – I do like their religious imagery though I couldn’t tell you who all the gods are)
I can’t believe that utter
I can’t believe that utter facist braverman is back at the home office.
She wanted to be granted an injunction on protestors based on what she thought they might do.
I do love the trope that the
I do love the trope that the Tories are going to privatise the NHS.It’s wheeled out continuously but here we are 12 years in and they still haven’t done it.
The same goes for the endless comparisons with the US system whilst comparisons with our European neighbours or Antipodean friends are almost never mentioned.
Why do you insist on backing a system that causes huge numbers of people to die needlessly?
Edit.
‘Othering’ people is never OK btw.chrisonabike
Well… it’s complicated.
Well… it’s complicated. Pretty much all the equipment and infrastructure is provided by the private sector. I believe that some of the “services” (such as keeping the lights on – or changing the bulbs) have also been contracted out. We shouldn’t forget all those publicly-owned not-for-profit pharma companies – sorry, private for-profit global concerns. They are certainly implicated in some sharp practice e.g. they’re very keen to influence doctors, boost prescription levels, bend the science etc.*
Again – even being a public service the system is extremely important in keeping people in jobs, being the biggest UK employer. It’s an order of magnitude above the next ones, the military and the DWP. But the majority of UK employees work in the private sector. Would all these people do as well working in the private sector? Open question.
* This is also understandable as drug development (as opposed to merely churning out generics) is vastly expensive and also risky as an investment. So only companies with deep pockets tend to be involved. Partly for good reasons – with the exception of the pandemic we rightly demand involved and lengthy testing. However it is a “good” for us all that this continues to happen as e.g. bacteria develop resistance etc. so the money needs motivating!
hawkinspeter
Rich_cb wrote:
Rich_cb wrote:Last paragraph is a bit disappointing. The fact that people in many other countries get better healthcare than we do means it’s cruel to want to emulate their systems? If a greater involvement of the private sector leads to fewer people dying unavoidably, as demonstrated in Australia and Germany for example, then who cares if profit is being made?We can’t even seem to be able to copy better cycle infrastructure, so I have exactly zero faith in trying to “improve” the NHS by allowing rich people to get good health care and the poor will get completely screwed over (most likely subsidising the wealthy).
Cruelty is the hallmark of the U.S. healthcare system and especially their health insurance. Also, compare with Sunak moving money from deprived areas to bolster up rich areas. I can personally guarantee that the Tories will sell as much of the NHS as possible over to U.S. companies for a quick buck and future generations will be paying the price forever.
Doesn’t matter how you dress it up, the Tories are evil, blood-sucking parasites.
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