[Shades]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000llw4

Interesting ‘take’ on why motorists hate cyclists; have a listen, only 15min long

Topic

[Achtervolger]

I think that my

I think that my interpretation may be slightly less charitable – it did seem to me that Lois Pryce was blaming ‘sport’ cyclists for ruining it for everyone else, and for her dressing up in cycling-specific clothing was part and parcel of being one of those cyclists. She directly compared such cyclists to Hell’s Angels bikers, who she felt had spoilt motorcycling for everyone else. TBH, I think she may never have really had me (or anyone else on this forum?) with her opening point, which the rest of her spiel flowed from, that motorcyclists overall have a bed reputation in this country. This isn’t something I’ve ever felt, but perhaps this comes from myself having always been a bicycle rider, and having family members and friends who’ve ridden motorbikes. I’ve certainly had far fewer close passes from motorcyclists, though perhaps that’s simply because they’re smaller and there are fewer of them.

[Achtervolger]

Yes, I think I can second

Yes, I think I can second Hirsute on this one – unless I’ve mis-remembered the exact wording, I believe the gentleman who introduced the speaker, and interviewed her at the end, suggested that (something along the lines of…) because many of these quick cyclists were go-getting businessmen (going back to an earlier point about The Economist calling cycling “the new golf”), they naturally rode in an egotistical and aggressive manner. To be fair, and credit where it’s due, the travel journalist did point out that such riding could be fairly called ‘assertive’, and was exactly how she was taught to ride a motorcycle – ie, taking primary road position, etc.

[Sriracha]

Honestly, I must have missed
Honestly, I must have missed the part about “being aggressive”. Was it there? I didn’t hear the word aggressive.

[Hirsute]

The other thing I thought

The other thing I thought they got completely wrong was the whole “being aggressive” when in fact it is being assertive. I will position myself to deter overtakes at pinchpoints, I’ll ride primary to stop mgifs joining a stationary line of traffic or the classic bully boy tactics. Had that on Monday, some bloke in his 60s felt that since he was in a car, it was ok to drive continuously on the wrong side of the road to over take parked cars, despite 3 obvious places to pull in.

I tended up with both of us statonary on my side of the road with him just past a space where 2 cars could have parked. So I shouted “that’s where you should have pulled in to let me by” but of course might is right and I should have doffed my cap.

I will admit to being aggressive…when some twunt tries to put my life in danger because they can’t wait a few seconds or are just a shit driver who can’t plan beyond the end of their bonnet.

[Hirsute]

“None of the other sports you

“None of the other sports you mention bring you into contention with motorists.”

Nail. Head.

[Sriracha]

It would be interesting to
It would be interesting to get the views of a proper behavioural psychologist instead of the imaginings of a journalist.

I don’t think the programme was saying it was wrong to wear the proper gear, more that because that gear sets cyclist apart it triggers an adverse reaction in some drivers. Us/them stuff.

I guess it is something like being picked on walking down the road, just because you happen to be in Eton school uniform and straw boater.

I think there is also something to do with drivers being in cars. It even turns mild mannered labradors into snarling rottweilers if you are ever foolish enough to stick your hand through the open window.

None of the other sports you mention bring you into contention with motorists.

[Hirsute]

When I played rugby, I wore

When I played rugby, I wore rugby kit;  basketball, basketball kit; running, running kit (well my wife does); cricket, cricket kit; croquet tournaments, croquet kit (and don’t get me started on Hurlingham dress rules). Even if I go kayaking, I’ll wear a technical top (the horror) – that must put off people in their inflatable dingies.

Oddly enough, when I’m cycling, I wear cycling clothes – why would I want to wear out trousers or get oil over them ?

According to the programme, since I wear gloves, I’m some sort of elitest and there was me thinking they are handy if I come off or the chain comes off.

On the one hand cycling is elitest due to aero bikes and kit and on the other cycling is really accessible – just look at the take up of hire bikes in cities. Oh, so those people aren’t put off by others riding in suitable attire for a longer, faster trip.

I’m not sure what the programme was trying to tell us, but shit infrastructure and crap drivers put people off more than anything else.

[Hirsute]

Surely you’ve heard all those

Surely you’ve heard all those drivers shouting at runners “ooh, look at you with your technical top, garmin forerunner 945 and Asics Gel-Kayano 27 for your over pronation. Who do you think you are ? Roger Black?”

“And you aren’t using your glutes enough”

[Mungecrundle]

It’s odd, I cannot think of

It’s odd, I cannot think of any other sport or exercise based recreational activity where normal members of the public taking part get criticised for wearing appropriate sports clothing. Surely it would be far more reasonable to question the wardrobe choices of the morbidly obese, inactive sofa slug wearing a footie shirt or sports trainers?

[Sriracha]

That’s the part I found
That’s the part I found puzzling. Sure, Copenhagen and Amsterdam, you get loads of people in everyday clothing pottering about on ‘Dutch’ bicycles – which we lack in the UK, because we lack their infrastructure and regulations.

But, in addition, the continentals also have their “lycra clad”, the club cyclists, sports cyclists, etc. Obviously they are not the ones pootling around city centre squares mixing it with promenading pedestrians. They are out doing their Strava stuff batting along the roads. And here’s the bit she didn’t explain – how come they are tolerated there in a way we are not here.

My take is that (certainly in France) having a greater identification with and affinity for the various Tour de [country] events, they are far more tolerant of those inspired so to cycle themselves.

[mdavidford]

Quite – from listening to

Quite – from listening to this you might think that ‘sport’ cyclists didn’t exist elsewhere in Europe, rather than them still existing, but just being significantly outnumbered by utility cyclists.

[Achtervolger]

Indeed, I think it’s in the

Indeed, I think it’s in the journalistic style guide that all cycling pieces must have the word ‘war’ in the title. It seemed like an intriguing mix of about 50/50 insight/cobblers. Though overall, unfortunately, my take was that the speaker’s main point was that ‘sport’ cyclists are to blame for everyone hating all cyclists, which seems a bit unfair, to say the least.

[Tom_77]

This is a lot shorter and

This is a lot shorter and more entertaining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFFrsvgu1Y

(from Monkey Dust)

[Mungecrundle]

“War on 2 wheels”
“War on 2 wheels”

Having listened, I’m extremely doubtful that was the title of the piece given to it by the author.

She raises a few interesting points about cycling becoming seen as an elitist hobby rather than accessible, practical, urban transport for the masses but it’s really just a personal view monolog without much substance.

My personal experience is that when commuting in work clothes, generally no helmet, I have a higher incidence of negligent driving close calls. When out for recreation in unashamed MAMIL mode there is a higher incidence of out and out aggression from a small number of motorists.

[Awavey]

not convinced myself, it

not convinced myself, it sounded to me like the classic journalist picks a reason at random first, forms an argument to prove it and then just doubles down through the whole piece thus proving they were right,which seems to happen alot in cycling related articles.

[Author]

Replies