[mattw]

I’m in at least 2 minds about these.

In principle the idea is great, but I’m not sure about the 4 wheel 2m high minivan design, nor the relationship to existing cycle infrastructure (much of the vid is a 2 way ~1.2m wide cycletrack) afaics, nor the non-signals and (I think) the straight through the amber-red lights done twice in 30 seconds on the vid.

It’s the Salford CYCLOPS, so I’m very much open to correction.

@AmazonUK's new cargo cycles using the CYCLOPs in Salford! pic.twitter.com/YYIrsAE3g4

— Harry Gray (@HarryHamishGray) November 28, 2022

 

Topic

[mattw]

IMO ths issue is intention

IMO ths issue is intention not possibility.

Ditto the red lights.

[mattw]

I think the drivetrain is

I think the drivetrain is something called the Bosch Cargo Line (limited to 25kph for assist), and tehy carry of the order of 180kg in 2 cubic m of volume.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/cargo-line

[AlsoSomniloquism]

Pictures in the press do seem

Pictures in the press do seem to show mirrors. And you can see the driver/rider in the screen grab below. However they don’t seem to stick out far, and as they are to be used on cycle paths I do wonder how much of a blind spot there is for someone on two wheels close behind it like the filming rider. 

[AlsoSomniloquism]

It could have been worse.

It could have been worse. Remember their drones option.

The UK invalid carriages should supposedly be set at 4mph when on pavements and 8mph on roads, the latter needs signals and road lights though to be able to do that. What would cycle lanes class as?

As Rendel mentions, I do wonder how legal they are. It seem they don’t pedal a chain, but instead pedal by wire.

Vok is propelled through electronic pedalling, which means that every pedal stroke is transferred to electrical current, then amped up by the onboard electronics and precisely tuned algorithms control the in-hub motors that propel the bike. There are far fewer moving parts compared to regular drivetrains, leading to low maintenance needs and a very long lifetime, especially compared to chain-driven cargo bikes that require drivetrain maintenance every 1000 km.

( i believe they are Vok “bikes”. If they are not, they are the same design principles.)

[chrisonabike]

Inability to signal?  Looks

Inability to signal?  Looks narrow enough to stick an arm out – but I still think it should have indicators (I’m quite happy for companies / businesses to jump through extra hoops that e.g. the general public don’t).

TBH Amazon are pushing all kinds of limits, not least their full-size vans on double-yellows, pavements and other places where they’re less than ideal.  Again if I was ruling the world I’d probably mandate that the healthy go and collected it themselves but here we all are;  so everyone got lucky there!

[AlsoSomniloquism]

First light in the video

First light in the video seemed to be full red for both the EV and the cyclist. 

[hawkinspeter]

mattw wrote:

I’m in several minds.

This has the usual UK feel of ‘pushing the envelope beyond sensible’, but OTOH Amazon walking the limits of the infra may help drive development (eg 2m wide cycle tracks at this junction).

The inability to signal is a real problem, and perhaps an offence.

It is about the same size as the invalid carriage micro-cars which are used in NL on cycle infra, but perhaps rather longer. But they work as the infracstructure is generallt adequate, whereas here even the best feels like dial-up internet when broadband had arrived.

I think it’s overall a good thing. The more that motorists have to encounter different vehicles and styles of riding/driving, then hopefully their observation and attention will be improved. Also, there’s the major advantage of not having someone driving a car or van to deliver packages – every little bit helps.

[Rendel Harris]

brooksby wrote:

Are those things “e-vehicles” or is the Amazon person pedalling away like crazy?

EVs definitely, and from the ones I’ve seen in London the rider puts in very little effort, they are really just turning the pedals in a very low gear to activate the motor so that they stay within the law as pedelecs.

[hawkinspeter]

brooksby wrote:

Are those things “e-vehicles” or is the Amazon person pedalling away like crazy?

Probably electrically powered. If they wanted to pedal it, then a cargo bike would be a better design. Incidentally, I’m seeing more electrically assisted cargo bikes around my neck of the woods recently – I wonder if that’s got anything to do with the Clean Air Zone (started today).

[brooksby]

Are those things “e-vehicles”

Are those things “e-vehicles” or is the Amazon person pedalling away like crazy?

[mattw]

I’m in several minds.

I’m in several minds.

This has the usual UK feel of ‘pushing the envelope beyond sensible’, but OTOH Amazon walking the limits of the infra may help drive development (eg 2m wide cycle tracks at this junction).

The inability to signal is a real problem, and perhaps an offence.

It is about the same size as the invalid carriage micro-cars which are used in NL on cycle infra, but perhaps rather longer. But they work as the infracstructure is generallt adequate, whereas here even the best feels like dial-up internet when broadband had arrived.

 

[chrisonabike]

Roaxanne…

Roaxanne…

[chrisonabike]

Per previous I’m wary of

Per previous I’m wary of companies spotting a niche and making “cars–” or “not a motorbike really”.  Then e.g. companies overusing the niche of cycling space for deliveries.  Or people on overpowered electric “bicycles” (illegal motorbikes).

This probably comes down to working out enforcement details.  (Those on suspiciously fast bicycles who’re not turning the pedals currently seem to lead charmed lives).

However that’s a fact of life.  The real issue is the UK reality that the available cycling infra is minimal in both extent (coverage) and actual width and will remain so for a long time.  If enough becomes viable in some location expect to see the big and mainstream move in and dominate.  Console yourself that it’s harm minimisation – much better than normal delivery trucks.

On the plus side – if it’s legal (e.g. pedalec) then it won’t be going especially fast so much better than a truck.  Also great for drafting!

This setup does look a bit unstable due to the height.  Another query – even a normal velomobile (which is much lower) is a bit of a sail in high winds.  Presumably has mirrors.  Again I’d hope that there would be (after a period of experimentation) some basic but legislation / regulation for these e.g. requirements for side / rear vision and also maybe indicators on something like this.

[hawkinspeter]

brooksby wrote:

You’d be following one of them for a while, wouldn’t you?  Not easy to overtake…

Just go onto the road if you want to overtake them. I do that for e-scooters in bike lanes as it avoids trying to do a close overtake just at the same time as they try to avoid a pothole.

Personally, I don’t mind slower vehicles using segregated infrastructure, but I’m concerned that they have four wheels although they probably present less danger than motorbikes.

[brooksby]

You’d be following one of

You’d be following one of them for a while, wouldn’t you?  Not easy to overtake…

[Author]

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