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Hi all,

Idiot/novice here in need of basic advice on cross-compatibility of cassettes, chains and front derailleur indexing. 

I own two road bikes: Lapierre is used for commuting and wet winter training, Ribble is used for summer riding and racing. I have one set of wheels for each bike. Cheap alloy on the Lapierre, Carbon rims on the Ribble – both rim brakes.

For context, I am on a tight budget and as such I have bought a set of Fulcrum 900 C17 allow wheels for training on the Ribble so I don’t destroy the carbon wheels with my rim brakes when its a bit wet and muddy/gritty on the roads. I would also like to have the option of being able to use these alloy wheels on the Lapierre when winter training in the rain. Mainly because the current Lapierre alloy wheels are ready for the bin (very buckled). So here is my summary below:

Lapierre trainer bike specs:

Shimano Claris 50x39x30T triple chainring (teeth starting to look worn, may need replacing in near future – done 12000km), 8 speed 11-28 cassette and chain are shot and going in the bin. Remainder of drive train is also Claris and probably in need of replacing soon. 

Ribble race bike specs:

Shimano 105 50x34T chainring with 105 11 speed 11-34 cassette. Bike is new and done less than 1200km.

SO, my intention is to purchase a 105 11-30 cassette (£42 currently) to fit on the new Fulcrum alloy training wheels for use with either bike. And obviously a new 11 speed chain (<£20) for the Lapierre to make this work.

1. Does anyone see any potential problems with the compatiblity of these setups? E.g. Will the gear indexing still work when switching between these 4 configurations?

2. Can anyone also advise on whether i’m just going to trash the chain etc on the Ribble by swapping the trainer wheel between a very tired drivetrain on the Lapierre and shiny new 105 parts on the Ribble.

Presumably the obvious choice would be to replace the remainder of the drivetrain on the Lapierre with new bits but i’m scraping pennies here and trying to avoid additional expense. However i’m open to any suggestions of corner cutting and deals on parts. For example I’ve seen chainreactioncycles are doing a 105 full group set for £300, however I do not need the brakes etc. and I cannot really afford £300. Budget is maybe 150 max.

Hope this makes sense to you all. All advice welcome, any other questions, let me know.

Thanks,

G

Topic

[Dnnnnnn]

OnYerBike wrote:

The outer/external width does get narrower between each successive speed. (The articles also discuss which aspects of shifting the outer width makes a difference too, versus which aspects the inner width is relevant for). 

Agreed, and you do need to consider all the variables (while seeing through the marketing BS), not just inner chain widths. I was just responding – also slightly incorrectly, as it happened – to a specific point. My original reply above did also include “issues with other parts though – best not to mix’n’match too ambitiously”.

[OnYerBike]

I would suggest looking at

The outer/external width does get narrower between each successive speed. (The articles also discuss which aspects of shifting the outer width makes a difference too, versus which aspects the inner width is relevant for). 

[Dnnnnnn]

hirsute wrote:

hirsute wrote:

 All that would mean though is that it would fit a single chain wheel but with a triple, the spacing between the 3 would be incompatible. 

It was quite a specific point I was referring to, and certainly not all that’s relevant in a happy shifting outcome (which is the result of more than one variable). I wouldn’t fancy the 8/11 mixture with a triple set-up, although Sheldon (and my own experience) suggests less mis-matched set-ups are probably fine.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html#chainrings

[Hirsute]

All that would mean though is

All that would mean though is that it would fit a single chain wheel but with a triple, the spacing between the 3 would be incompatible.

[Dnnnnnn]

matthewn5 wrote:

matthewn5 wrote:

The inner width of chains isn’t the same. Once you get past 5-6-7 speed, they’re narrower for each successive speed.

I’d be interested to see a link (no pun intended) for that. I took my advice from here: www.velonews.com/gear/tech-faq-chain-width-explained-compatibility-queries-answered – although I do see others which state a difference between 5-8 speeds and 9-12 speeds (e.g. https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3555/bicycle-drive-chain-dimension-standards/#2 or http://www.statecyclist.com/bike-chain-size-chart/). But not between each successsive speed.

Perhaps we are both partly wrong?

[matthewn5]

The inner width of chains isn

The inner width of chains isn’t the same. Once you get past 5-6-7 speed, they’re narrower for each successive speed.

[Dnnnnnn]

wycombewheeler wrote:

wycombewheeler wrote:

I wou;d doubt chainrings for an 8speed would accept an 11speed chain, as the teeth would be too wide, built to accomodate the wider 8 speed chain.

The *inner* width of chains between the plates should be the same – it’s the outer width that has changed. So an 8 speed chain wouldn’t fit an 11 speed cassette with its narrow spacings – but it should be OK on the actual “8 speed” chainrings. Might be some issues with other parts though – best not to mix’n’match too ambitiously.

[Dnnnnnn]

Oh yes… well, £150 net then

Oh yes… well, £150 net then…(there go the derailleurs too)

[Rendel Harris]

Good deal – but I was trying

Good deal – but I was trying to work with the OP’s “£150 max” budget!

[Dnnnnnn]

Or a complete new 105

Or a complete new 105 groupset for £300.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-105-r7000-11-speed-rim-brake-groupset

Sell off the excess parts – used Claris shifters easily fetch £40 on ebay; the new 105 calipers the same (if you were happy to keep the old ones).

There may also be Black Friday deals on other groupsets

[IanMSpencer]

The bit that leaps out is
The bit that leaps out is that the chain rings are worn. This strongly suggests that you aren’t changing worn chains at the right time. Chains are wearing parts, though 8 speed quality chains should be good for about 3000 miles – cheap chains can be damaging from new.

Changing chains before over worn leaves cassette and chain rings with very little wear and assuming you use the full range of gears means that it is unlikely that you’ll need to change the chain rings for many years, and the cassette should last about 3 chains. Don’t change the chain and you get pointy teeth on the chain ring and when you put a new chain on, it slips.

An over-worn chain is also unsafe and could snap under load.

[Hirsute]

I managed to put the small
I managed to put the small front chain wheel on the wrong way round and it got stuck, so trying an 11 speed chain on an 8 speed chain wheel is not going to be a good combo.

[wycombewheeler]

David9694 wrote:

I’m a bit hazy on this: I think all you say is undoubtedly right about the rear, but there seems to be a bit more “not that fussed, mate” about the front?

It puzzles me that my Stronglight examples cover a range of speeds or the information isn’t given at all. 

I also saw some other sites flirting with mixing in 10s Tiagra with 11s 105. Fora are full of this type of stuff!

I think cainrings are good for 10s / 11s I’m sure they were even marked this way at one time, but I wou;d doubt chainrings for an 8speed would accept an 11speed chain, as the teeth would be too wide, built to accomodate the wider 8 speed chain. 

[Rendel Harris]

Depends what you’re mixing,

Depends what you’re mixing, it is possible to bodge by fiddling with adjustment screws etc; Mrs H once had a 10sp Ultegra crankset that worked fine with a Sora 8sp chain and RD. However with an 8 speed crankset and an 11 speed chain the narrower chain would most likely slip between the chainrings, I wouldn’t like to try it. But certainly there’s more improvisation leeway with chainsets than there is with cassettes.

[David9694]

I’m a bit hazy on this: I

I’m a bit hazy on this: I think all you say is undoubtedly right about the rear, but there seems to be a bit more “not that fussed, mate” about the front?

It puzzles me that my Stronglight examples cover a range of speeds or the information isn’t given at all. 

I also saw some other sites flirting with mixing in 10s Tiagra with 11s 105. Fora are full of this type of stuff!

[Author]

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