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ibr17xvii.
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November 27, 2013 at 6:20 pm #20271
Joeinpoole
The LTDA set up hidden cameras at 2 traffic light junctions and recorded how many cyclists rode through them on red. You can see the video on their website here;
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ragtimecyclist
Trying to keep up with the
Trying to keep up with the news recently around cyclist behaviour/accidents etc. is like being subjected to a propaganda war…different groups of road users seem intent on setting themselves off against each other rather than engaging in any meaningful discussion.Some cyclists behave badly, as do some taxi drivers, HGV drivers, commuters, pedestrians etc. etc.
I don’t have the answer, but rather than address the issue the LTDA are surely just stoking the flames?
Colin Peyresourde
Colin Peyresourde wrote:Actually the practicalities of getting statistics on red light jumping is pretty hard. You have to have lights and they have to be turning red.If all the RLJers turn up at a green light it skews the stats, and if they all turn up at red lights (and the non-RLJers don’t) then it skews the stats. But the probabilities is that they will even themselves out over time.
I don’t know how you ride but when I’m approaching a red light then I will be easing off and braking from at least a couple of hundred yards out with the intention of only arriving at the junction after the lights have changed. I’d assume I’m not alone in doing that and clearly such actions would undermine LTDA’s means of collating their ‘statistics’ even further.
David Portland
Most impressed that the VERY
Most impressed that the VERY FIRST VEHICLE in the unedited Hackney footage is a car sailing through a red light and turning right. Mildly disappointed that it wasn’t a taxi.Gkam84
I went and had a look at the
I went and had a look at the unedited version’s. Just a quick scan through, because I was only looking for one issues that is to do with cyclists.Motor’s filling the ASL….Here is a prime example of what people thing is legal, but in my eye’s, what this van driver does in illegal because the lights were already changing.
The first three vehilce’s turning right were ok, The white van, the blue car and then silver 4×4, but watch the next van. He had time to stop short of the ASL but went right over it.
What happens now if a cyclist wishes to turn right? This harks back to the cyclist who was fined for jumping a red light last month (I think) because the ASL was full and he went ahead of the traffic….there was quite some debate on it.
What are your thoughts?
dave atkinson
if you’re going to argue that
if you’re going to argue that no improvements can be made before a certain group of vehicles behaves, then you’ll be waiting a long time for any new infrastructure, be it for bikes or motor vehicles. this ‘behave and we’ll talk’ attitude only applies to bikes, it seems.incidentally the LTDA obviously picked those two junctions because they’re filter junctions: there’s no traffic flow to cross, so a bike filtering through a red light isn’t going to impede anyone or risk a collision. i wonder what the results would be on a busy crossroads where a cyclist would actually be endangering themself by jumping the light?
Colin Peyresourde
Actually the practicalities
Actually the practicalities of getting statistics on red light jumping is pretty hard. You have to have lights and they have to be turning red.If all the RLJers turn up at a green light it skews the stats, and if they all turn up at red lights (and the non-RLJers don’t) then it skews the stats. But the probabilities is that they will even themselves out over time.
As Goingroundincycles says this is an issue for cyclists and cycle campaigners. How can you argue for better road safety and better policing of other road users if cyclists are seen to be clearly and regularly breaking the law.
Poor cycling etiquette hurts all cyclists, and does not move the issues forward politically. You have to look at all the political interests and they are equally competing for the ears of politicians, for derestriction or regulation, and the more blameless one minority group can appear it is harder to attack.
FluffyKittenofTindalos
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FluffyKittenofTindalos
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:GoingRoundInCycles wrote:@FluffyKitten
@JackNorellWe have a problem and that problem is getting the authorities to take our safety more seriously.
The problem is there is no ‘we’ in the sense you are using the word.
By “We”, I meant cyclists. If getting the authorities to take cyclists’ rights to safety more seriously is not a concern of yours, I sincerely apologise.
GoingRoundInCycles
GoingRoundInCycles wrote:@FluffyKitten
@JackNorellNeither Taxi drivers nor general motorists are trying to persuade the authorities to do something radical to improve taxi driving and motoring safety at the moment. They don’t have a problem.
We have a problem and that problem is getting the authorities to take our safety more seriously. Hard to argue that case when footage indicates that 50%+ of cyclists in 1 hour at two separate sites clearly don’t give a toss about either the law or indeed their own safety or the safety of pedestrians.
The problem is there is no ‘we’ in the sense you are using the word.
If you personally know a RLJer (of the more reckless type, at least, especially one who barges through pedestrians) then by all means remonstrate with them personally. But I don’t accept that my right to be safe as a cyclist or pedestrian is dependent on what random other people with bikes do at red lights.
Joeinpoole wrote:
I thinkJoeinpoole wrote:
I think LTDA have been fairly selective with their statistics though. If you watch the unedited footage from both junctions (available on the same link) then I reckon I saw fewer than 10% of the total cyclists who passed the junction went through on red. The vast majority were passing through on green. Trouble is LTDA, for the purpose of making their point, are clearly only counting the cyclists when the lights are on red.That does sound as if they presented the figures in a very misleading way. I wonder how hard it would be to get similar figures for motorists if you used the same methodology and chose the right junction? Especially if you counted those entering the ASL on red as jumping the red (which I think technically it is). I know one junction where during rush hour the motorists going through “just after it went red” pretty much wipe out the pedestrian phase.
Its a propaganda war really, nothing to do with dispassionate study of an issue.
(Which is just plain depressing – human nature sucks!)mrmo
so where were all the
so where were all the minicabs past the ASL????And the 53% is b******s most obeyed the law. yes 53% of those who should have stopped didn’t but that is very different to 53% of ALL cyclists broke the law. I did notice a fair few Cars, buses and HGVs in the ASL….
@FluffyKitten
@JackNorell
Nei
@FluffyKitten
@JackNorellNeither Taxi drivers nor general motorists are trying to persuade the authorities to do something radical to improve taxi driving and motoring safety at the moment. They don’t have a problem.
We have a problem and that problem is getting the authorities to take our safety more seriously. Hard to argue that case when footage indicates that 50%+ of cyclists in 1 hour at two separate sites clearly don’t give a toss about either the law or indeed their own safety or the safety of pedestrians.
Colin Peyresourde wrote:I’m
Colin Peyresourde wrote:I’m not sure the title makes sense. 53% of RLJ-ing cyclists filmed?!? Why didn’t they film the other 47%? And what % of cyclists RLJ?I think I know the answer…..but how can I be sure.
Seems like an accurate picture though.
Sorry about the confusing title!
I think LTDA have been fairly selective with their statistics though. If you watch the unedited footage from both junctions (available on the same link) then I reckon I saw fewer than 10% of the total cyclists who passed the junction went through on red. The vast majority were passing through on green. Trouble is LTDA, for the purpose of making their point, are clearly only counting the cyclists when the lights are on red.
The unedited footage also shows how often the ‘bike box’ is occupied by a motor vehicle too which is certainly why some of the cyclists crossed the ASL to get ahead of the traffic. I’ve no doubt that LTDA counted them as RLJ’s too even if they went no further.
dunnoh
I’m getting fed up with this
I’m getting fed up with this stuff. I commute everyday and ride at the weekend. Some car drivers are idiots. Some cyclists are idiots. If I read half the sh*t on here I would smash my bike and buy a tank. Cant fellow cyclists realise that we have won – we weigh less, we have better mental health, we have more money blah blah blah.I’m not sure the title makes
I’m not sure the title makes sense. 53% of RLJ-ing cyclists filmed?!? Why didn’t they film the other 47%? And what % of cyclists RLJ?I think I know the answer…..but how can I be sure.
Seems like an accurate picture though.
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