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rojre.
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November 18, 2013 at 7:03 pm #20224
NIrish
I was on my usual commute home and I tend to be the type to track stand at every light, when a guy bombs up the inside and away. I caught up with ease (he was older than me) and gently reminded him that green man is for pedestrians. I got an earful along the lines of “…you gonna tell every cyclist…” I got to the top of a hill and more lights, eh whiz zed past on the path to the lines of “…take you to the road,…back to the school run”
Am I stupid putting myself out there, am I alone in wanting to maintain that roadies/commuters obey road laws.
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FluffyKittenofTindalos
Jimbonic
Jimbonic wrote:FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:But these sorts of things are not the special responsibility of any one group.Except the police, maybe?
I grant you that one.
They seem to regard much of this low-level stuff as not worth their time, though.
Jimbonic
FluffyKittenofTindalos
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:hampstead_bandit wrote:cyclists want to be treated fairly by other road users, but also want to choose when they obey the law, it does not work like that?
What?
Try the above sentence with “cyclists” replaced by “older people” or “pedestrians” or “white people” or “black people” or “men” or “women” and “road users” replaced with the appropriate wider group.
Are you seriously arguing that nobody can expect fair treatment in society till everyone else who has anything at all in common with them behaves totally perfectly at all times?
Where does this odd ‘logic’ come from? Its becuase people tend to think in this bigotted way that soceity is such a mess.
I’ve read and re-read this and have come to the conclusion that, actually, there are two arguments there:
In one, “cyclists”, “women”, “old people”, whoever are quite within their rights to feel that they should be treated fairly by “road users”, “society”, “nursing home staff”, etc.
In the other, people / cyclists / whomever cannot expect to be allowed to break the law without some sort of legal retribution.I don’t think it is bigotted, just two separate arguments.
Matt eaton
I’m generally pretty opposed
I’m generally pretty opposed to RJLing but I have to confess I found myself doing it this morning.It was on an empty pedestrian crossing and going on red ment that I was able to position myself (and the child trailer) safely where I needed to be for a rather awkward mini-roundaout junction. Waiting for green may have ment a tricky situation with a car that I wasn’t keen to get into, especially as I was double-long and double-wide with the trailer on and less manouverable and quick than I would be without it. There’s no excuse to be made, technically I crossed the line on red, but my assesment of the situation was that this was the best course of action to stay safe. As cyclists we are vunerable road users and as such I do think that allowances need to be made for us to remain safe. I’m not advocating blasting through every red that you come to but given the lack of cycle-friendly junction design in the UK I wouldn’t call someone out for bending the rules in certain circumstances.
FluffyKittenofTindalos
FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:But these sorts of things are not the special responsibility of any one group.Except the police, maybe?
Looking back on it, I realise
Looking back on it, I realise I do much the same thing when I see cyclists jump red lights right in front of me as when I see motorists do it (I see a lot more of the latter than the former, though that’s partly just ‘cos I see a lot more motorists in total than cyclists).I sigh and mutter something and look cross and then forget about it. I might roll my eyes if feeling particularly irritated.
hampstead_bandit
hampstead_bandit wrote:cyclists want to be treated fairly by other road users, but also want to choose when they obey the law, it does not work like that?
What?
Try the above sentence with “cyclists” replaced by “older people” or “pedestrians” or “white people” or “black people” or “men” or “women” and “road users” replaced with the appropriate wider group.
Are you seriously arguing that nobody can expect fair treatment in society till everyone else who has anything at all in common with them behaves totally perfectly at all times?
Where does this odd ‘logic’ come from? Its becuase people tend to think in this bigotted way that soceity is such a mess.
Its entirely up to you,
Its entirely up to you, no?What I would strongly object to is the idea that just because you are on a bike its therefore your special duty to police other people who have bikes. That seems to be a completely bonkers idea to me. Really, it makes no sense at all.
But on a general level, as a citizen in this country, everyone has to make their own decision about how much they want to intervene to reproach/police people on the street for anti-social behaviour.
It surely in part (though not solely!) depends on how brave/good at fighting you are?
Jeremy Paxman apparently tells people off for littering in the street, for example. If he’s not afraid of getting thumped in response, fair enough, good for him. But these sorts of things are not the special responsibility of any one group.
hampstead_bandit
if you ride on the highway,
if you ride on the highway, obey the rules of the road, really simple. keeps you safer, and from being blamed for causing an accident.you can try to explain your RLJ and other actions by blaming other road users, but it just makes you something of a pathetic hypocrite 🙁
cyclists want to be treated fairly by other road users, but also want to choose when they obey the law, it does not work like that?
I’ve been walking to work and back all week, since being involved in a hit & run whilst on my road bike this time last week and ending up with one arm in plaster.
I walk 5km each way from NW1 to WC2 London and being on foot has given me a different perspective, compared to making this same journey on bike: i am crossing covent garden, euston and mornington crescent into camden.
Something that has become very evident during this walk is how few cyclists will stop at red lights, or will go up onto the pavement to go around the red lights
I will walk across an area watching the junctions out of interest with a cyclists perspective. who is stopping? who is jumping lights? who is on the pavement? who is riding up the one way street?
Today i encountered a very unpleasant cyclist riding fast at me on the pavement in covent garden because he did not want to ride on the cobbled road (riding a full suspension mountain bike!) Told me to f*ck off when i politely asked him to get off the pavement lest he collided with my plastered arm.
On the evening walk back home I see a large number of cyclists will either have:- no lights, or just one light (often the front?and no rear), a light with flat batteries, a light pointing at floor / sky, or hidden behind luggage and wearing black clothing, all merrily riding through red lights.
Interesting to see if this entrenched behaviour changes once the Police blitz starts in London on Monday.
When i was riding, i found measured sarcasm very effective with serial RLJ “traffic light gangsters” and pavement riders “pavement terrorists”
Crispycross
Ahh, Bigcog and TomvanHalen’s
Ahh, Bigcog and TomvanHalen’s comments are at the heart of this. There’s a set of rules, written down as the Highway Code, which is intended to be a common reference point for everybody. Yet they choose to obey certain of them only when they see fit. In the Highway Code, a red light’s a red light, fullstop, yet for these two (I’m not having a go here, guys) and countless others, it’s only really a red light if there’s a pedestrian or car in the way. Same when you’re driving. It’s only really red if I can’t squeeze through after the car in front. It’s only really a 30 mph limit if I want it to be, or if there’s a camera or copper about. Now that common reference point has been lost and we get this situation where drivers think it’s ok to break some rules because all drivers do it, cyclist think it’s ok to break others and each group of road users appears, to each other group, to be a bunch of lawless scoundrels. How are we going to turn this around?Bigcog
TomvanHalen wrote:By all
TomvanHalen wrote:By all means call out people who jump red lights dangerously. Plenty of people blow through crossings while peds are in the road or speed through junctions with barely a look. And they’re going to hurt themselves or others.But remember, traffic laws are designed with cars in mind. 2 tonne, unwieldy death machines. Bikes are small, nimble, and not generally a hazard to others. There are many junctions around me that are genuinely safer for me if I roll ahead and jump the light while it’s clear, rather than be squeezed out by an impatient car. And if there’s no one near a pedestrian crossing, why should I lose all my momentum just because vehicles need to obey big flashy lights to stop them running people over?
As someone said above, all this “bad rep” bollocks is because people hate cyclists, full stop. If we all waited patiently at red lights, that would still be true in this country. So think twice before dishing out abuse or snarky comments to cyclists who RLJ in a safe and aware fashion. Kthx
I am with you TVH. I am afraid that at 6.45 in the morning I am not going to stop at a red light covering a small side road junction when no one is travelling in any direction in any vehicle; nor do I stop at pedestrian crossings where there are no pedestrians crossing. On these occasions I always slow to a roll and keep any eye out for anyone wanting to cross especially if there’s a car sitting at the light as you might not see a small person crossing or a dog.
Something that really gives cyclists a bad name is when riders fly through pedestrian crossings when there ARE people crossing X( , barely missing them and if the pesdestrians are “lucky” they get a wave of the hand as if to say ” thanks for letting me through” not that they had any choice at all. ~X(
Respect for all road users should be the mantra, whether they are pedestrians crossing or cars, or other vehicles. If we all had a little more respect for others we would promote better behaviour.
TomvanHalen
By all means call out people
By all means call out people who jump red lights dangerously. Plenty of people blow through crossings while peds are in the road or speed through junctions with barely a look. And they’re going to hurt themselves or others.But remember, traffic laws are designed with cars in mind. 2 tonne, unwieldy death machines. Bikes are small, nimble, and not generally a hazard to others. There are many junctions around me that are genuinely safer for me if I roll ahead and jump the light while it’s clear, rather than be squeezed out by an impatient car. And if there’s no one near a pedestrian crossing, why should I lose all my momentum just because vehicles need to obey big flashy lights to stop them running people over?
As someone said above, all this “bad rep” bollocks is because people hate cyclists, full stop. If we all waited patiently at red lights, that would still be true in this country. So think twice before dishing out abuse or snarky comments to cyclists who RLJ in a safe and aware fashion. Kthx
OldRidgeback
giff77 wrote:I find the
giff77 wrote:I find the disparaging put down works wonders. Once asked a jumper if he would like me to adjust his brakes for him as he seemed to have problems stopping. He mumbled something about sorting it when he got home.Yep, same sort of thing I do. If you sound friendly and keep it low key, it takes a while for it to sink in and then it seems to work the best.
Red light jumpers get us all a bad name so I’ve no problem in saying something.
No need to involve the police.
BikeBud wrote:Yep, RLJ’s give
BikeBud wrote:Yep, RLJ’s give us a bad name. If “cyclists” don’t respect the rules of the road, why should drivers? We’ve all “experienced” drivers who don’t respect the rules of the road!I would turn that around. Why should cyclists obey the rules of the road, since car/van/lorry/bus drivers don’t?
I’m being slightly obtuse. But, the number of cycling RLJs is no more than other vehicles in my opinion. I will admit that cyclists more often do it in a more obvious, the lights changed about half-hour ago way. But, that doesn’t make the “other road users” any less dangerous. Also, do you really think that if no cyclists jumped red lights, all the other road users would suddenly decide they’re not going to do it either?
Back on topic though, it does annoy me and I do mention it to other cyclists – sometimes. But, I always come away feeling that it’s really up to them. There are laws that we all have to obey and, if they decide they don’t want to, what role do I have in their enforcement? Apparently, vigilante-ism (is that a word?) is illegal. And, foolish. So, I will continue with randomness. Since, on the counter to that argument is the one that states that we should report crime. So, really, we should report all the RLJs to the police…
dunnoh
Its really none of your
Its really none of your business. It does my head in that people jump lights but its up to the police to say something. I just keep my head on the task in hand which usually means trying not to be run over by a piss poor driver
giff77
I find the disparaging put
I find the disparaging put down works wonders. Once asked a jumper if he would like me to adjust his brakes for him as he seemed to have problems stopping. He mumbled something about sorting it when he got home. -
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