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Going ultralight, help identifying a 5.2kg beauty

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  • August 17, 2013 at 10:23 am #19631
    Leviathan

    At the exhibition at the Excel in London the other week I saw some very slender young bikes. I went round lifting them up to test the weight. I found one was 5.2kg, this produced a chortle and a certain amount of envy and avarice to get a next generation bike for myself. However I foolishly did not make a note of the manufacturer. After going from a mountain bike to a Carrera, um ‘metal’ bike, to a Jamis Carbon 8.5kg, even lighter and more aero has to be better right?

    Are we always talking in the £3k+ region for 5-6kg weights? I was thinking a graph of weight to RRP cost would identify best buys and look cool, but perhaps the internet has got there first before I do this. Can anyone suggest what this ultralight beauty might have been or similar weight bikes? And anyone comment on the stability of v. light bikes?

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  • August 20, 2013 at 11:30 am #752325
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    ilovemytinbred

    Maybe we are splitting hairs
    Maybe we are splitting hairs a bit. I totally agree that there is a lot of pretty average stuff about that is just painted pretty. But I do believe that good companies are making superlight frames that are superstiff too, Cannondale is just one example. I also think that there is a general trend for normal priced frames to be lighter than 5 years ago without having to be a poor quality ride.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:49 am #752323
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    mooleur

    700c wrote:I’ve been thinking

    700c wrote:
    I’ve been thinking about this and I think there’s more to it than objective, scientifically measurable gains in terms of grams, stiffness,.aerodynamics etc of equipment

    The relationship between rider and equipment is so important, confidence and even the knowledge that you’ve shaved a few grams, or invested a load of cash, can have a bigger effect psychologically than the numbers may suggest.

    Similarly, knowing you have form, or having beaten competitors previously, will have am impact too.

    I reckon there’s a PhD paper or two in this!

    Definitely agree!

    God I’d love to meet the people that get employed to write these papers!

    August 20, 2013 at 10:48 am #752321
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    mooleur

    ilovemytinbred wrote:It is

    ilovemytinbred wrote:
    It is only 6.8kg because they put weights in it. I dont really get the idea that weight makes any difference to the handling if it is a decent frame. An aero frame/wheels will give you much bigger problems as they catch the wind.

    Weight will make a difference based on the grade and spec of carbon weave used to create such a lightweight frame. It’s not necessarily the idea that a light frame will have you blow over in the wind (although it does make a spot of difference if you’re a light rider) – like aero kit would. But more the fact that there is an ever increasing demand to cheaply manufacture off the peg superlights – many times to the detriment of frame stability.

    This in turn will affect any action where you require a degree of required stiffness to weight ratio, such as climbing or sprinting.

    Sh1t carbon makes for sh1t handling, don’t let the pricetag fool you either – many top end manufacturers skimp on grading.

    If we’re talking about steel or alu the same rules apply it’s just a different process. The new steel lightweight revolution is incredibly interesting, I was reading up on the manufacturing processes and the way they’re doing things at the moment is incredible.

    As a bike freak I get excited when a passionate manufacturer creates something that pushes boundaries – BUT at the same time, every time a manufacturer discounts quality for $$$ – somewhere, a puppy dies.

    [edit] might see if I can overuse the word “incredible” any more…

    August 20, 2013 at 10:35 am #752319
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    700c

    I’ve been thinking about this
    I’ve been thinking about this and I think there’s more to it than objective, scientifically measurable gains in terms of grams, stiffness,.aerodynamics etc of equipment

    The relationship between rider and equipment is so important, confidence and even the knowledge that you’ve shaved a few grams, or invested a load of cash, can have a bigger effect psychologically than the numbers may suggest.

    Similarly, knowing you have form, or having beaten competitors previously, will have am impact too.

    I reckon there’s a PhD paper or two in this!

    August 20, 2013 at 10:30 am #752317
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    ilovemytinbred

    It is only 6.8kg because they
    It is only 6.8kg because they put weights in it. I dont really get the idea that weight makes any difference to the handling if it is a decent frame. An aero frame/wheels will give you much bigger problems as they catch the wind.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:24 am #752315
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    mooleur

    abudhabiChris wrote:
    That I

    abudhabiChris wrote:

    That I would agree with.

    People get all excited about equipment and aerodynamics before they do the basics.

    Yup!

    For an average rider, those gains won’t be seen until they race. And then, they’re generally not an average rider any more.

    I don’t even race on aero wheels and I’m stilling running a 105 set for the road bike.

    The science is interesting but it often unfortunately clouds good judgement.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:20 am #752313
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    mooleur

    ilovemytinbred

    ilovemytinbred wrote:
    Cannondale supersix Evo is less than 700g and is not exactly a noodle. Peter Sagan seems to manage ok and he is going to stress it a bit more than us.

    Peter Sagan also has exceptional control skills!

    UCI sanctioned full build is 6.8kg – the Evo can be built at less, personally I wouldn’t ride it at less unless I was hiring it in the Alps for a sportive or holiday – I don’t have the power or experience to hold something that light upright when the wind starts having a hissy.

    Also the Evo is on the cusp of top end when it comes to price – so you would expect them to weave in a reasonable stiffness to weight ratio.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:13 am #752311
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    KirinChris

    mooleur wrote:I’m slightly

    mooleur wrote:
    I’m slightly perplexed as to how a post about lightness geekery has morphed into… oh sod it.

    I bought 1 bike. Lost 20kg in 1 year. (80 to 60)

    For the price of one bike I gained the weight advantage of ~three by riding it.

    Only feasible way forward now is to congratulate myself by buying a superlight frame…. maybe.

    That I would agree with.

    People get all excited about equipment and aerodynamics before they do the basics.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:13 am #752309
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    mooleur

    700c wrote:Mooleur – agree

    700c wrote:
    Mooleur – agree completely.

    PS really keen to cycle the isle of Man TT route. Looks fantastic, but wouldn’t take my deep rims though! Can’t do the sportive this year unfortunately, so will have to organise something myself

    It’s hideous! In a good way, I’ve done the full route once (actually on that sportive!) and it is super challenging, just the mountain really – it’s baron and windy and soul grinding, by the time you get to it you’ve already put your legs through some pretty rolling terrain so it’s a tough old slog to the finish line.

    Definitely not one for deeps although I think Kennaugh might have used his aero wheels when they did a TT round it last time?! (I’d have to check the photos)

    Coming down the mountain is the best bit, I’m an OK descender and have clocked well over 50mph on good days 😀

    Let me know if you’re ever over, can take you on some nice routes! 🙂

    August 20, 2013 at 10:12 am #752307
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    ilovemytinbred

    Cannondale supersix Evo is
    Cannondale supersix Evo is less than 700g and is not exactly a noodle. Peter Sagan seems to manage ok and he is going to stress it a bit more than us.

    August 20, 2013 at 10:04 am #752305
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    700c

    Mooleur – agree
    Mooleur – agree completely.

    PS really keen to cycle the isle of Man TT route. Looks fantastic, but wouldn’t take my deep rims though! Can’t do the sportive this year unfortunately, so will have to organise something myself

    August 20, 2013 at 10:00 am #752303
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    700c

    Yes there will always be a
    Yes there will always be a range of opinions on any topic, people have different views about the importance of equipment etc relative to other things.

    No problem with that – in fact that’s what you want on an internet forum!

    I just thought it was getting a bit personal, that’s all.

    I like this forum. It’s a nice relief from other sites in that it’s usually informative and polite. Contrast this to bike radar, or worse,.YouTube, ask.fm, twitter etc – it’s a hot topic in the UK at the moment.

    Of course most of us have thick skins, but you never know, the person at the other end of the screen, might not have

    Plus there’s a general principal of being civil to others – should apply equally whether face to face or online – though I know it’s not always easy or possible..

    August 20, 2013 at 9:43 am #752301
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    mooleur

    I’m slightly perplexed as to
    I’m slightly perplexed as to how a post about lightness geekery has morphed into… oh sod it.

    I bought 1 bike. Lost 20kg in 1 year. (80 to 60)

    For the price of one bike I gained the weight advantage of ~three by riding it.

    Only feasible way forward now is to congratulate myself by buying a superlight frame…. maybe.

    On stability – there’s a reason the UCI sanctions specific weights and it’s not JUST because they’re a bunch of annoying tools. After losing a load of weight and riding my Kuota here on the Isle of Man (where it’s massively windy) – I can confirm stability SUCKS, at >20mph, passing a farm gate in a gust can get VERY hairy. But then does wonders for your technical ability. Every cloud 😀

    I’d question stiffness and power transfer when you start getting into the sub UCI weight categories – it might be better for climbing but are you losing valuable watts through the fact that you’re actually trying to climb on crepe paper?

    [edit] my bikes ~1000g atm.

    August 20, 2013 at 9:25 am #752299
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    Simon E

    It’s strange how people ask
    It’s strange how people ask questions then can’t handle responses that don’t match what they want to hear.

    If you want to buy a light bike I don’t have a problem with that. However, most people feel that the way to enjoy cycling more is to cycle more, just like the only way to get better on hills is to climb hills.

    You can be as rude as you want but it won’t bother me in the slightest, I can’t even bring myself to be even a tiny bit upset.

    August 20, 2013 at 9:09 am #752297
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    700c

    Well ‘two wrongs’ etc..
    Well ‘two wrongs’ etc..

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