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knee pain.. do I need pedal extenders

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  • February 1, 2013 at 1:05 pm #17837
    Sensible

    After getting my new road bike at Christmas I got road shoes and pedals (spd sl) both are Shimano. Previously only had a mountain bike with platform pedals. Went on a 29 mile ride with them for the first time. I have bit of knee pain on the outside of both knees. I think I am a bit duck footed and need to angle the cleat so that my feet point out a bit. The problem is that if I do that my heels will hit the crank arms and I already have the cleats as far over towards the bike as possible to try and give me extra room.

    I am now thinking that I need pedal extenders to bring my pedals out a bit. I have seen some 18 and 20mm one on the net. Does anyone have experience with extenders. Will this have any adverse effect on my bike (Giant TCR Advanced with Ultera compact chaining)

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  • February 6, 2013 at 3:56 pm #714337
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    egb

    Definitely go for a bike fit.
    Definitely go for a bike fit. I went for a fully personalised one with a former MTB pro that only cost me £80 (well, £80 is a fair amount). A good fit will run through what you want from your riding then sort out the angles and positions that are right for you. Just from making a few minor tweaks to my bike it’s now a lot more comfortable. He also suggested stretches that have eased my existing knee-problems. It’s money well spent.

    February 5, 2013 at 11:17 pm #714335
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    NormanStanley

    Was thinking of this article
    Was thinking of this article when I wrote the above too and just found the link – found it useful when first moved for full road cleats – simple and straight forward: http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/take-care-of-your-knees-part-2-17445/

    February 3, 2013 at 1:32 pm #714333
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    Bobbys boys

    …and remember to stretch!
    …and remember to stretch!

    February 3, 2013 at 1:05 pm #714331
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    Sensible

    Good advice.
    I will see how
    Good advice.
    I will see how it goes and won’t rush into anything.
    I found a bike fit video on you tube which gives the basic advice about seat height, saddle position, handlebars, cheat position etc. I will work through that first. If problems persist then I may go with a bike fit but not going to rush into that.

    February 2, 2013 at 8:00 pm #714329
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    NormanStanley

    Also be wary about bike
    Also be wary about bike fitters who have a system and may have little experience. They may not be paying much attention at all to you and how your particular body works. £100 – £200 shouldn’t be spent lightly in my book – though I take a lot of things seriously. If a system is in use like Retul they need to have plenty of experience too and even then personally I would think twice – over the last 5-10yrs every man and his dog has become a “bike fitter” – all too easily and all too quickly I think.

    If as you say someone rode with you and thought your saddle looked too low in my experience they are often right – by how much is another matter and up to you and your body. This article includes a very good way to set your saddle height accurately yourself.
    http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/2011/02/seat-height-how-hard-can-it-be/

    Even if you don’t do it yourself it’s worth a read. Also because even the best may not get it right first time (check at least one follow up is free as it was where I went if you get a bike fit) and if you look at this article and things at your bike yourself you are going to narrow down what is the actual cause. You are going to enhance the chances of being fixed first time. What’s more you may solve the problem yourself and save yourself £100-£200 and learn a bunch of useful things and doing such for yourself is very rewarding. It is a bit of an art and not a black and white science so have a chance for sure of solving it yourself. If you can’t sort it you’ve still learnt and most likely found it rewarding; what’s to lose?

    You’ve plenty of time to get yourself comfortable between now and the better weather arriving, when you want to be out there enjoying your bike. If you decide you need a fitting after lots of research and finding nothing but positive recommendations I went here:
    enquiries@thebikewhisperer.co.uk
    (020) 8998 7271
    The Bike Whisperer
    185 Pitshanger Lane
    London
    W5 1RQ

    I think it was £195 and what they offered versus a high street shop I thought made worth paying the extra, even compared to those who give a decent fitting service.

    The man won’t rush you. Typically the appointment is 4 hrs; I was there for 5 – just the way it went.

    February 1, 2013 at 9:10 pm #714327
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    notfastenough

    Probably between £100-200
    Probably between £100-200

    February 1, 2013 at 8:59 pm #714325
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    snooks

    Talk to a fitter.
    I use 25mm
    Talk to a fitter.

    I use 25mm pedal extenders on Speedplay pedals on my Giant Defy Advanced 2. Best thing I ever did. I am a big guy so your mileage may vary. But after 30+ years of riding I feel like I am pedaling correctly for the first time, as in my legs go straight up and down in line with my hips.
    I have heard people talk about Q factor for a long time but I think its overrated and more applicable to smaller people who naturally have a low Q factor.

    This is the guy who did my fit at a bike shop in Solana Beach, California.
    http://www.velofitter.com
    Also read this
    http://www.velofitter.com/blog/2012/6/13/bike-fit-pain-discomfort-and-injuries-feet-and-legs.html

    “Your stance width may be too narrow, so you’ll want to widen your feet on the pedals by doing any of the following: 1) move the cleats laterally, toward the inside edge of the shoe; 2) add 2mm of pedal washers between the crank arm and pedal; 3) add pedal extenders (aka “knee savers) between the crank arm and pedal; 4) change to pedals with a longer spindle; or 5) change to a crankset with a wider Q-factor.”

    If you sign up for his newsletter he explains things like pedal extenders. If you use Speedplay they make pedal axles in different lengths, also switching to Speedplay eliminated a lot of knee pain issues I have had, especially with my left knee which has been operated on twice.

    February 1, 2013 at 8:09 pm #714323
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    paulfg42

    The location of the knee pain
    The location of the knee pain is important. whereabouts is the pain exactly?

    February 1, 2013 at 7:11 pm #714321
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    Sensible

    Whats the cost of a bike fit
    Whats the cost of a bike fit these days?

    February 1, 2013 at 6:30 pm #714319
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    notfastenough

    Pedal extenders are an
    Pedal extenders are an option, but they increase the ‘q’ factor (distance between feet) – this can cause other issues because unless you have exceptionally wide hips, your legs will no longer be parallel.

    I have fallen arches, so I have custom orthotics for everyday shoes etc. However, walking around/running/whatever are heel-posted activites, whereas cycling is forefoot-posted, so use of heel-based orthotics is of debatable benefit.

    I also have a neutral foot stance where my soles are tilted inwards by about 4.5 degrees (outstep lower than instep, in other words). This meant that when I was pedalling easy it was ok, but once I pushed on, each foot would collapse inwards on the downstroke. This in turn caused my knee to knock inwards by a couple of cm with each pedal revolution.

    I went to see a sports therapist who does bike fittings, and ended up with the following:

    Specialised Body Geometry footbeds, in the +++ (green) flavour (this is their maximum arch support).

    Varus wedges to support the tilted foot stance, essentially bringing the instep upwards to meet the foot. This consists of 1 x 1.5 degree varus wedge under each insole, use of Spesh Body Geometry shoes which include a built-in 1.5 degree tilt (since they reckon the majority of people need that), and a further 1.5 degree wedge slotted into the Speedplay cleats. Total 4.5 degrees.

    Interestingly, while all the above was definitely necessary (they would have caused me problems at some point, and prevention is better than cure), my knee pains were actually solved rather more simply. Basically, the vertical track on which the kneecap runs relies on equal tension from the attached inner and outer quads. Contrary to what you might think when looking at your thighs, the outer quad is used more than the big strong teardrop shaped inner quad. This meant that the outer quad wanted to pull my knee off-track when I tensed the muscles. So, some foam roller work on the outers, and regular tensing of the inners (when just standing around or whatever) solved it. Your mileage may vary, obviously.

    Oh, and check that the bike fitter will look at pedals/cleats, a lot don’t touch them.

    Good luck.

    February 1, 2013 at 4:12 pm #714317
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    NormanStanley

    I’ll second what one guy said
    I’ll second what one guy said about stretching your quads too. Though it may well be down to cleat position or flat arches or similar a colleague who qualified as a soft tissue specialist said “it’s rarely the knees fault”. Good stretching is complementary and can only help.

    Plus the quads I would recommend stretching your hams (can make a huge difference) and consider stretching your calves, hip flexors and ITB as well.

    If you have a desk job your hamstrings and hip flexors are shortened – I am 6’4″ so the effect is exaggerated.

    February 1, 2013 at 3:38 pm #714315
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    alijfowler

    I was suffering from knee
    I was suffering from knee pain on my new bike as well. I too got new pedals and shoes so just put it down to getting used to the equipment. My mate suggested raising my saddle and moving it forward slightly. Since doing that I haven’t had any pain.

    February 1, 2013 at 3:10 pm #714313
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    BerlinG

    As above — think about your
    As above — think about your ride position (bike fit?) and whether you are pushing too big gears (spinning at a high enough cadence?). Give it a couple more rides too, although obviously if you are in excruciating pain disregard all the advice except maybe the bike fit and seeing a doctor!

    February 1, 2013 at 2:53 pm #714311
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    Sensible

    Good advice gents.
    I do think
    Good advice gents.
    I do think my seat may need raising. The chap I was riding with said it looked too low.
    Also, I have got flat feet and wear orthotics for work and home shoes, but never thought about it for cycle shoes as I wasn’t walking. Maybe I need some additional arch support.

    February 1, 2013 at 2:40 pm #714309
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    jimmo62

    Sounds like a bike fit at a
    Sounds like a bike fit at a dealer or with a local coach would be worth a try, they will be able to advise on seat position (height and fore-aft), bar height, pedalling style, cleat position etc etc and get you properly sorted out. It’s a relatively small investment for many years of comfort….

    As pointed out above there are many reasons for sore knees and these guys have years of experience in knowing what to look for.

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