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Suggestions for 2012 season

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  • September 5, 2011 at 12:29 pm #14182
    drheaton

    Seeing as the 2011 fantasy season is now winding down I figured I’d start a topic for everyone suggestions/requests for next year. I know a few have been given through the season but I thought it’d be more helpful for us to have our suggestions and requests for next season all in one place.

    Other than having a little more flexibility on who I can pick (up to 3 ARs, 2PC etc) my suggestion is:

    – Have a team reset button when doing transfers –
    Basically be able to reset my own transfers if I realise I’ve messed up. While this is the basic reason it would also allow people who perhaps can’t always make their transfers at 10:55 to make two transfers immediately when the window opens and then if they have a change of heart or realise that one of their riders has abandoned/crashed/been done for drugs they can reset their team to how it was at the end of the last stage and redo their transfers. Also this might stop people having to keep asking Dave to reset their team if they mess up.

    On variable rider values despite being against it at first I like that the riders change in value a little throughout the season but I think variations might be better if they were slightly more noticeable than they are now. How it was during the Giro was probably a bit excessive, how it was during the TdF was hardly noticeable and a bit pointless (other than to mean that I was always 0.1 short of having the team I really wanted) so either no changes or more noticeable changes would be better.

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  • September 8, 2011 at 3:10 pm #653593
    0
    Gkam84

    I know you talked about a
    I know you talked about a tour bonus for your riders you pick in the first stage according to their GC finishing place

    What about the same kind of thing for an all round finish?

    For example, If i picked Cobo on the first stage, Even if he lost and came 2nd to Froome, he’s got more mountains and general points, so has the overall jersey just now in La Vuelta, How hard would it be to calculate that for the Giro and TdF?

    Just the top guy i mean, so the guy who has the best GC, Points and Mountains combined

    September 8, 2011 at 12:13 pm #653591
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    nickobec

    Gkam84 wrote:
    No it didn’t,

    Gkam84 wrote:

    No it didn’t, If you go have a look

    Yes you are right, my memory was a little hazy. Pinotti got the yellow jersey from the TTT but I did not get 10 GC points.

    But would of been nice to score 10 points for picking Pinotti

    September 8, 2011 at 10:33 am #653589
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    Gkam84

    nickobec wrote:TTT & GC

    nickobec wrote:
    TTT & GC points, that has what happened this year in Giro & Vuelta. You need to pick right team and know the team politics. I did well in the Giro, lousy in the Vuelta. Why not keep it.

    No it didn’t, If you go have a look

    TTT stage: Team Time Trial scoring. 10 points for each participating member of the first place team down to 1 point for each participating member of the 10th placed team

    So when HTC won the Giro TTT on the opening day, they all scored 10 points, there was no GC points

    September 8, 2011 at 10:31 am #653587
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    drheaton

    Thinking about it swapping
    Thinking about it swapping riders from AR to KM to GC at different stages of the year could cause massive headaches for Dave and the database. Possibly just having a greater selection of PC and KM guys (so for example adding some of the really cheap climbing or sprinting DSs, people like Turgot and Bonnet, at their low DS price) would give more choice and combined with being able to pick 2 or even 3 KM/PC/GC riders that might solve some of the issues.

    If you’re setting categories at the start of the season you’re always going to get anomalies like the three radioshack GC guys in the TdF but with experience that should happen less in the future anyway.

    September 8, 2011 at 10:12 am #653585
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    manolo

    About the GC
    About the GC classiification:

    Gkam84 wrote:
    … have only 1 GC team leader per race …

    I like this idea, just one rider designated as the GC guy per team. It would be crazy, but maybe fun if that GC guy could change during the race. Just thinking out loud here.

    About the KM classification:

    In my opinion it’s too big. Right now there are only 6 riders in the PC classification. I wish there were only about that many in the KM classification. There are a lot of riders I would like to use right now in that classification. Maybe, as in the GC suggestion, there should only be one KM guy per team in this classification. Have the rest as DSs or ARs. That would open up being able to use a lot of these guys on breakaway stages.

    About Lloyd Mondory, why he is in the KM classification is beyond me. Helpful for the sprint stages, but I’d rather see him as an AR.

    September 8, 2011 at 8:58 am #653583
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    drheaton

    dave_atkinson wrote:one of

    dave_atkinson wrote:
    one of the things we’re considering is a tour bonus based on your starting team. A bit like what’s described above, but separate to the GC points. So, you pick your team to start based on who you think will win, and play as before, with transfers and GC points. But if you picked Froome and Cobo on day 1 and they end up one and two, you get a bonus at the end of the tour.

    I like this idea but I’d hate if I did really well through a tour only for someone who’s had a shocking last week to jump above me because they’d made some good choices at the start. Likewise I don’t know how well it would work if going into the last 2 or 3 stages nobody really had any idea who was likely to win because the bonus was big enough to have a significant effect on the scores. That kind of uncertainty wouldn’t be good for the game, perhaps having daily points allocated on who you picked at the start might be good rather than having a big lump of points at the end. That being said if you want to try and pick a team that’ll do well throughout the tour for the first stage play the Purist game.

    dave_atkinson wrote:
    carrying transfers over: noted

    also mooted: extra transfers could be available, but you’d pay for them. So you get your two, but if you want to make a third it’d cost you 10 points or whatever, and maybe even more for a fourth… :evil:

    Any of these ideas, transfer carry over, transfers costing points (as long as the price is reasonable) and having a transfer wildcard where you play it and get double transfers for a stage would work and be an improvement.

    Gkam84 wrote:
    One final thing i thought off that really came to light in the TdF this season

    Is it possible to change riders category’s for each race??

    I also agree with this to a point and when team values are reset to 175 the rider values should not be reset, it was daft at the start of the TdF that those riders in great form who’s price had increased significantly were then reset to their lower starting value. Rider changes should be allowed to fluctuate through the year, team values should keep being reset. Ensuring an average price is kept for each category is also a good idea.

    September 8, 2011 at 6:53 am #653581
    0
    Stumps

    I’m about to swear – in
    I’m about to swear – in fantasy football – yes i know we shouldn’t use bad language on forums, but, in their game you get 2 transfers each week and if you transfer more players you loose 4 points for every transfer.

    I think it was mentioned about extra transfers and losing points, seems a good idea though.

    In the end the game runs well as it is and only needs a couple of tweaks.

    How about a small prize for the winner of each stage, such as a pair of socks or signed memorabilia from teams which i’m sure Evans could get quite easily using their contacts.

    September 8, 2011 at 6:20 am #653579
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    nickobec

    TTT & GC points, that has
    TTT & GC points, that has what happened this year in Giro & Vuelta. You need to pick right team and know the team politics. I did well in the Giro, lousy in the Vuelta. Why not keep it.

    GC finishing order points for starting line up. Is likely to significantly change the way people play the game and adds to the complexity. You need to sell it to me, what makes it good (and yes Cobo & Wiggins was in my Vuelta starting line up).

    2 transfers per day is good and I want to keep it, I do really like the idea of being able program my transfers in days in advance (I have missed 3 transfer windows this year, mind you one was the day I beat everybody in a Giro stage – go figure).

    The Halford’s game is rubbish compared to this (and I have played the Halford’s game as the SBS game for the last 3 years)

    Keep the mountain and sprint bonus points as is, even though the Giro, TDF and Vuelta do them all differently. Giro heavily favoured climbers, TDF breakaways + sprinters bonuses.

    and my previous post in another thread on same topic

    +1 for rider values changing throughout next season based on performance during season. Just make sure when some riders rides rise in value, other riders decrease in value. (ie average GC rider value before Giro is 30, Contador dominates his value rises from 40 to 44, end of Giro his values stays at 44, average GC rider is still 30, even if other 20 GC rider drop 0.2)

    Like the idea of same budget for everyone in Giro, TdF & Vuelta, it is about fairness. Banking points for World Tour add to complexity, which I don’t really like. Plus is it really competition if your team is over 220 points competing against 175pt teams?

    Banking transfers, makes it more complex. Only way I would say yes is 2 unused transfers can be banked as a single transfer. And you can only bank max of 2 transfers.

    Only 2 transfers makes you plan ahead, while you all where working on your Alp D’Huez strategy, I transferring in riders for the Grenoble TT (who could climb JC Peruad anyone), that is why I finished 7th overall in TdF (brilliant TT performance, too bad I picked Spartacus instead of Tony Martin, expecting afternoon rain, but went from 13th to 7th overall that day).

    Again I like the simple 1 GC 1 PC 1 KM 2 AR 4 DS. 2nd choice 1 GC 1 PC 1 KM 2 AR 3 DS + 1 your choice any more adds complexity.

    Other changes I would like to see:

    Increased points for the classics, currently the winning rider gets 20pts if rider wins 1st day of multi day race the usually get 35pts, 20 for win, 10 for 1st in GC and 5 for leading sprint classification. Suggestion top 25 finishers in one day race get points from 25pts for 1st to 1pt for 25th. Logic, points at end of classic (325pts) roughly equal points for end of stage in multi day race with finish, GC, sprint, mountains and young rider points (310pts), Advantages nice and simple. Disadvantage 6th place in a one day race = 1st in GT stage.

    Alternative 1st 30pts, 2nd 28pts, 3rd 26pts… 9th 14pts 10th 12pts, 11th 10pts, 12th 9pts … 20th 1pt. Logic = stage + GC points.

    Lantern Rouge is over valued, once a GT is on it is easy to pick the Lantern Rouge, they rarely change from stage to stage. Suggestion decrease the value of Lantern Rouge from 10pts to 5pts. Also award Lantern Rouge points for the last rider to finish a classic.

    September 7, 2011 at 11:17 pm #653577
    0
    Gkam84

    One final thing i thought off
    One final thing i thought off that really came to light in the TdF this season

    Is it possible to change riders category’s for each race??

    So to avoid having 3 riders in the GC: Team leaders, ok, so Radioshack didn’t do well with the 3 they had in there, BUT you didn’t have that set up with the Schlecks?? But you have it just now with Geox, Sastre and Menchov are GC, so why not the Schlecks?

    A bit of consistency with that would be nice, either have only 1 GC team leader per race, which would be better in my eyes or make it fair, If Sastre and Menchov are GC, then i see the Schlecks should be aswell?

    September 7, 2011 at 10:55 pm #653575
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    stewieatb

    [EDIT: we already have
    [EDIT: we already have that]

    Somebody suggested weighting the classics’ finish line points as if they were the opening stage of a tour (finish line points plus GC points), so 1st gets 30, 2nd gets 28, 3rd gets 26 and so on til 10th gets 12, 11th gets 10 and as it is now from there on down to 20th gets 1.

    I hope you get your team selection code from early in the season up and running again Dave, a bit of flexibility would be helpful 🙂

    September 7, 2011 at 10:39 pm #653573
    0
    Gkam84

    I think your going the wrong
    I think your going the wrong way manolo, thats just making the game dull

    If you decrease the points for mountains and sprints then your taking the thrill of trying to work out who might go in the break each day, if you reduce those points, people will just load their team with people in the GC to gain more points

    For TEAM time trails, why should a rider who’s worked his ass off in the opening half of the TT not get points for finishing with the team? thats the whole point of it being a TEAM TT the team works in whichever way the feel is right

    Also, giving GC points for an opening stage TTT isn’t right because then you benefiting from the team deciding a certain person crosses the line first, thats not a good idea

    September 7, 2011 at 10:15 pm #653571
    0
    manolo

    As far as how points are
    As far as how points are awarded during a stage:

    I would suggest:

    1. Stage PC: Each sprint have 3, 2 and 1 point available for 1st, 2nd and 3rd

    2. Stage KM: Have the following points available.

    HC: 5,4,3,2,1
    Cat 1: 4,3,2,1
    Cat 2: 3,2,1
    Cat 3: 2,1
    Cat 4: 1

    It makes sense to me to bring the pints down just because an attacker could earn more points than the stage winner if there are a lot of mountains, but I think most people feel the real prize, and therefore the most points should go to the stage winner. On a mountainous stage, a rider could accrue a lot of mountain points, yet not wear the climber’s jersey at the end of the day, which I think is more prestigious than just getting a lot of points, yet the leader of the KOM, at the end of the day only gets 5 points? I’d rather the rider get less points along the way.

    3. For Team Time Trials: If your rider does not arrive with his team to the line I propose he get no points – or the amount of points the team he matched times with.

    4. I’d also like to see the points available for the GC standing from the first stage, the Team Time Trial. In my mind if you get to wear the leader’s jersey after the stage, why not award fantasy points for it?

    September 7, 2011 at 9:11 pm #653569
    0
    Gkam84

    dave_atkinson wrote:
    one of

    dave_atkinson wrote:

    one of the things we’re considering is a tour bonus based on your starting team. A bit like what’s described above, but separate to the GC points. So, you pick your team to start based on who you think will win, and play as before, with transfers and GC points. But if you picked Froome and Cobo on day 1 and they end up one and two, you get a bonus at the end of the tour.

    Now thats a good idea, quite a hefty bonus?

    So for instance, i’m on 1162 and cherrypicked the current leader is on 1546 and if that was the end of the tour, so a nice 200, 150, 100 for the top 3 and if i’d picked Cobo, Froome and Wiggo, that would see me top 😀

    September 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm #653567
    0
    dave atkinson

    carrying transfers over:
    carrying transfers over: noted

    also mooted: extra transfers could be available, but you’d pay for them. So you get your two, but if you want to make a third it’d cost you 10 points or whatever, and maybe even more for a fourth… 👿

    September 7, 2011 at 8:52 pm #653565
    0
    dave atkinson

    Gkam84 wrote:So no GC points

    Gkam84 wrote:
    So no GC points for anyone else but who you pick for stage one? not high five’in that idea :O

    one of the things we’re considering is a tour bonus based on your starting team. A bit like what’s described above, but separate to the GC points. So, you pick your team to start based on who you think will win, and play as before, with transfers and GC points. But if you picked Froome and Cobo on day 1 and they end up one and two, you get a bonus at the end of the tour.

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