- This topic has 36 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 11 months ago by
Boatsie.
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June 11, 2019 at 10:56 am #29734
redrobot
until a week ago i knew nothing about bike tech and now i find myself asking ‘mtb qr skewer / stunt pegs compatability?’ many / most of the posts in the road.cc forum are tech related in an obscure way which everyday folk wd find impossible to understand. and yet many of these people will ride bikes. so is there a bike hierarchy in which geek cyclists exist separately from the majority of regular cyclists and how does that manifest itself for each group? the separation of groups, as well as being based on levels of involvement and knowledge, wd also seem to be based on income. biking can be an expensive, socially exclusive business. £1300 wheel set anyone? while i’m on the road for £45.
in a related way you cd also surmise that there is a kind of class war going on between many drivers and bikers. some drivers seem to be just plain hostile to cyclists even when theyre not on the road like a kind of 2 wheel racism. young to middle aged chavs wd seem to be the main culprits. it doesnt seem to me to be just about drivers thinking cyclists badly affect traffic it’s also about their perceptioons of people who cycle and of themselves. if theyre a white van man a cabbie a truck driver or a twenty something chav who loves his motor they will be aggressive petrol heads who dislike cyclists for their perceived wimpy middleclass green agenda. it’s class war.
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Boatsie
Mungecrundle wrote:
Mungecrundle wrote:”Smiling. I go to a church of foreign language because it’s easier to see the music in the words.”Boatsie.
Boatsie, with your permission, but someone should create a collection of your postings. I don’t “get” art, but I do like a Banksy. You Sir are a Banksy of the written word.
Thank you sir. I’m free. I don’t understand permission: An animal kingdom and my being isn’t the wealthiest: wealth is health.
What might be more appropriate would be to help our governments understand that tribal chiefs are with fantastic knowledges of governing men hence normal people like you and me can greatly enjoy simple benefits such as life.
Thanks sir..
Mungecrundle
“Smiling. I go to a church of
“Smiling. I go to a church of foreign language because it’s easier to see the music in the words.”Boatsie.
Boatsie, with your permission, but someone should create a collection of your postings. I don’t “get” art, but I do like a Banksy. You Sir are a Banksy of the written word.
Boatsie
It’s so hard to judge friends
It’s so hard to judge friends let alone strangers bro.
My good mate changed my habits.. Somehow.. He’s a chubby chap, yet being into kayaking (same core routine as cycling, kick with the legs like a solid push on a pedal while blade oar hand firm holds on the grasp of touch) came up with a 1963 kayak.. It is so old yet painted in Australian livery, fairly light, wide and loving of waves.. They go around the $400 down here.. It’s marvelous. Changed my perception of a solid water bike. I ordered and paid a new kayak, $5540.. That was a complete loss. Paid but never made (not delivered is what I know).
My mate lost his license, needed a work option, I suggested cycling, his brother in-law? Uncle? Anyway, someone was an Olympic cyclist and during that time used to commute to work on the bicycle via the long route.. Adelaide to Murray Bridge googles @75km on a bicycle. Hence 150km instead of idk 5? 6? km.
He already knew he had that option..
Where as another mate at work has cyclist quad muscle legs.. My eyes opened.. You spent what? Di2 something, huh? Eyes opened even further when price of other bikes was mentioned..
Another mates brother just spent $20000 on a road bike.
Trips me out too man. Not the cost although suchlike is beyond the budget of a labourer such as me.. But Dude, they may as well weigh nothing.
The kayak weighs some but not much, not fancy modern fabrics; fibre glass. Yet light enough and designed to get up on plane.I agree with you too alansmurphy.
Boy racers have passion, although grow out of it I disagree with, more like grow up with that desire to remain alert.
Lots of people look worn by our governments, by me, by others, just driving home, just driving to the shop, just awake. Maybe in a hurry rather than a race.
Last night with lightpole obstructing lane.. 5? 6? Cars at peak of hill in middle of highway (a really easy silhouette) and a bright torch double tapping the attraction of their eyes at 500metres then placed to illuminate upon pole end.. Plenty nearly hit that. At speed. My mind was racing, if hit does occur, it’ll force, fulcrum should lay along lie, hence that bit will come back at me, I’ll lose a bike, whoop, but I’ll stand like this just in case I need that jump. Landing grass.
Chase cars were worse.. Closer. Lead car maybe new of sight site and risked puncture, debris damage but chase cars so far up their behind very much enjoyed the use of their reaction.
The crash car slid uphill.. That to me is amazingAnonymous
alansmurphy wrote:Chav boy racers:I don’t mind these too much, they’ll grow out of it. It’s what the majority of drivers grow into which bothers me most. They see traffic holding them up rather than being a part of the traffic, they see us as an inconvenience, they feel they have rights greater than others, they are protected in their bubbles, they don’t realise that they’re even doing anything wrong. Any age, culture, race, income, gender… there’s millions of inconsiderate motorists, I don’t need to check their demographic profile!
IME I’ve found ‘boy racers’ to be far better mannered on the roads than pretty much all other groups. Maye it’s the lack of them, but I’ve noticed that the close passes are virtually nil, certainly in an urban environ, unlike every other type/group of motorvehicle driver.
But yes, what all drivers become and are allowed to become is the bigest issue. The government are complicit through their inaction.
check12
srchar wrote:redrobot wrote:affluent commuter belt types tearing round the countryside on £3k bikes at the weekend doesnt seem right somehow. the athleticism / eco statement etc is fine. the economics, not.You don’t have to be affluent to ride, or “tear” as you put it, around on a three grand bike. I have a mate who’s a labourer, never going to be affluent doing that for a living, but cycling is his passion and the only thing he spends his money on, so he rides a C64, but he’d probably drop you on a Boris bike. Doubtless, judgmental arseholes like you drive past him in a twenty grand car muttering something under your breath about City boy wankers. Frankly, it’s none of your business what someone spends their money on.
“Judgemental arseholes” amen brother
srchar
redrobot wrote:affluent commuter belt types tearing round the countryside on £3k bikes at the weekend doesnt seem right somehow. the athleticism / eco statement etc is fine. the economics, not.You don’t have to be affluent to ride, or “tear” as you put it, around on a three grand bike. I have a mate who’s a labourer, never going to be affluent doing that for a living, but cycling is his passion and the only thing he spends his money on, so he rides a C64, but he’d probably drop you on a Boris bike. Doubtless, judgmental arseholes like you drive past him in a twenty grand car muttering something under your breath about City boy wankers. Frankly, it’s none of your business what someone spends their money on.
Boatsie
You guys rock..
You guys rock..
My old man taught me to know what I’m using which is why I rebuilt my bike.
Today I bought a $100 25 year old bike because it’s quality. The frame just shy of my preferred length yet I can’t stop laughing. It’s way lighter than the lightish bike I tried to build yet ii don’t care.. Wide tyres staying on my build. I know 28s rarely puncture especially during summer on smooth roads and I know I’m faster on wider tyres through the back tracks such as gravel and bumpy river paths..Bugatti Veyron.. I preferred the Ferrari.. I was tripped out. I met a musician in Odessa, Ukraine. He asked me why I hung around him everyday because I was a tourist. I told him straight up, ‘ far off can’t, ‘ sniffed a couple of loud snorts, ‘ you reak of education and besides, my idea of a holiday is to sit here and do nothing. ‘
He’s a nuclear engineer! I was amazed. I made many friends. Humble people. Wealthy with art. With a tertiary education, high wages were near $100 USD a month yet parked on the street below the window of my apartment was a Bugatti Veyron, Italian paint scheme Ferrari and lots of Porsches.
Like mentioned, regardless of wage, enjoyment was the basic education; enjoying life.
Cycling is a warm body, a cold face and nervous system that makes many smile.
1986. Chernobyl nuclear disaster; bigger than the Hiroshima bomb, a nuclear cloud covered much of Europe including more than 1 humble little village in Wales. The city near the power station is a place I’d like to be. Moose, deer, wolves, bears, dogs, cats, insects, birds, definition of pale rings enveloping darker wood telling a tale of time.
Granddad RSM WO1 D. James past away soon after cloud with cancer dominating throat.1922? Noble prize was awarded to a skillful doctor whom I think wrote pedanticly wrong yet jist is there.
Cancer doesn’t survive in non acidic blood and does like oxygenated blood.
I don’t argue because he’s true in layman’s terms but I think Cancer a god.
Hence god being a good. Therefore helpful yet not detected using our technologies nor any of the future and loving the good of life such as cycling demands from a body. Oxygen from breath and water.
Cabbage and vinegar were ancient medicines to feel good rather than punished.Honestly, as rare as the readers educated ability to translate.
Binned plastics go to landfill and/or ocean dumps. Recycled plastics are the best options I have to hope a less irritated man of lands I pass through.
Smiling. I go to a church of foreign language because it’s easier to see the music in the words.. Not sure what father says.. I just smile, stretch the wrists and look forward to practice of dance.
Simon E
I think redrobot is confusing disposable income with snobbery. They are not the same thing.Zigster wrote:Why pick on cycling? People spend 10x that on cars without blinking. So why does a £3k bike get your goat but a £30k car not?Quite a few people I know ride £3k bikes. They also drive nice cars. But they are nice people, clubmates or friends. They enjoy riding their bikes, they volunteer for their cycling club, their money helps keep the doors of my LBS open, who sells and mends all types of bikes – superbikes, e-bikes, 3-speed town bikes or a child’s first bike.
Cycling is as complicated or as simple as you want it to be. If you don’t like the cost and complexity then get a singlespeed, fit flat pedals and buy your lycra from Decathlon or or baggy shorts from an outdoor shop. The ‘hierarchy’ only exists if you want to be part of it and choose to compare yourself with specific people. No-one is forcing you to do anything.
This is because cyclists (and people who care about the environment) have been painted as out-groups by the media, just like other social groups. It happens everywhere, reinforcing stereotypes and finding scapegoats.redrobot wrote:if theyre a white van man a cabbie a truck driver or a twenty something chav who loves his motor they will be aggressive petrol heads who dislike cyclists for their perceived wimpy middleclass green agenda.Yeah sometimes it’s not fair out on the road but It’s not even remotely comparable with being a refugee from a war zone or a dark-skinned muslim in a white provincial town. I recommend that you grow a thicker skin. By all means acknowledge the negatives – nothing gets fixed if you don’t shout – but turn it around: focus on the positives, do positive things, look for the good in situations. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
dooderooni
At the end of the day, it’s
At the end of the day, it’s not what you’re riding, it’s the fact that you’re out riding it.Griff500
hawkinspeter wrote:What puzzles me is the connection between expensive bikes and athletic prowess. Some cyclists take the view that you should “earn” the right to have an expensive/lightweight/aero bike by racing or by having some arbitary level of performance.I think some of this is triggered by envy from those who are perhaps leaner, younger and fitter, but also poorer.
hawkinspeter wrote:What puzzles me is the connection between expensive bikes and athletic prowess. Some cyclists take the view that you should “earn” the right to have an expensive/lightweight/aero bike by racing or by having some arbitary level of performance. You don’t tend to get this with expensive cars (i.e. you don’t expect a Porsche driver to be an ex-racer) so why with bikes?You do get this with a few cars right at the extremes of the spectrum: most famously the Bugatti Veyron and Chiron have been designed to be no more “difficult” to drive than a Golf even at high speed, whereas the Noble M600, Ferrari FXX, Lamborghini Sesto Elemento, and some other thinly-disguised racing cars require a little more driving skill to extract the best from them. But that’s at the very highest end and I agree, there’s generally less assumption.
Perhaps it’s because the machinery that pro cyclists use genuinely *is* the bike that you can buy for £10k or less, so there’s an implication (albeit undeserved) that the owner thinks they’re a pro, whereas even a £200k track-focused supercar is not at all the same as a Le Mans GT endurance racer.
hawkinspeter
What puzzles me is the
What puzzles me is the connection between expensive bikes and athletic prowess. Some cyclists take the view that you should “earn” the right to have an expensive/lightweight/aero bike by racing or by having some arbitary level of performance. You don’t tend to get this with expensive cars (i.e. you don’t expect a Porsche driver to be an ex-racer) so why with bikes?
alotronic
I find this very comforting:
I find this very comforting:
I own some very nice, expensive bikes and spend lots of money on kit, but I wouldn’t dream of taking the piss out of anyone else’s bike or kit choice based on how much it costs. One of my mates rides a tatty Allez on which he commutes and rides for leisure with. Some of his cycling jerseys are getting mis-shapen at the hem they are so old! So what? He’s as strong as an ox and can leave me up the hills. We just ride and enjoy ourselves.
Cycling continually pushes you to adjust your thinking; Kids on cheap bikes can rip the legs off a MAMIL like myself on my realtively (2k) expensive bike. I know, I used to be that kid. I rode shit bikes for decades while I was student and then a strugling artist. I can now afford and economically justify a couple of decent bikes (justifcation is £8 a day on tube x 200 times a year). In many ways I am underbiked and my Audax exploits would justify a much more expensive (ti) bike but I am committed to wearing out the bikes I have for the time being.
I have struggled in the past with bike wankers but have calmed down a bit in the last few years – really if someone wants to buy a dream Colnago that’s their business – cycling has a way of evening that all out when the road points up or gets long anway. Age and training are way more important to performance than the bike you ride.
It’s easy to find a reason not to like people but everyone on a bike has a lot more in common than they have differences, I look to the communalities.
My judgement of riders these days has nothing to do with the bike and clothes, it’s simply whether they wave or not. Simples.
As for PP’s last para on motorists – perfect, 100% agreement.
alansmurphy
There’s so many points raised
There’s so many points raised here, a few of note to me are bike geeks:
I consider the level of knowledge isn’t so much about the tech but the mechanic, a bike geek to me is the one that can change a set of forks, looks at crank length, has built a bike from scratch etc. Tech can be informative, fun, give a slight advantage and often people on a journey (wanting to TT) will obsess over tech, it doesn’t mean they’re the most knowledgable.
£3k bikes:
Ok so there are the ‘all the gear no idea’ bunch, or people paying thrice as much for a carbon fibre bottle cage to save the odd gram when they’re 4 stone overweight. But… maybe just maybe they are enjoying themselves, it’s got them out of a sports car or golf club. They may have just liked the look of the bike and can afford it – leave them to it.
Chav boy racers:
I don’t mind these too much, they’ll grow out of it. It’s what the majority of drivers grow into which bothers me most. They see traffic holding them up rather than being a part of the traffic, they see us as an inconvenience, they feel they have rights greater than others, they are protected in their bubbles, they don’t realise that they’re even doing anything wrong. Any age, culture, race, income, gender… there’s millions of inconsiderate motorists, I don’t need to check their demographic profile!
peted76
Boatsie wrote:My car gets 100km on 5 litres of fuel. 6.7 litres with kayak on roof. Cycling kit during last 3 years.. 2 broken bikes. New brakes, loads of tyres, spare cassettes, spare chain wheel combo, new pedals, 3 second hand bikes.. Derailer, hub gear, fixie. An axle bearing. Illumination equipment 🙂 , wall hangers.. Overall.. A lot less than the fuel cost to have driven where was ridden. All up.. Not that much.. Maybe $1500 yet spares (including tyres and lubes) should see me without expenditure a year or 3 now that setup has started. Big hits were bikes.. $200, $120, $600. Upgrading $200 cost about $400. Tyres? $80 per four wide ones, $30*2 wide front and a couple of rounds of 28s at $50 a set. Lube $10?*4. Most not used.. Ditto with tyres. It’s way cheaper and it’s usually fun compared to driving. Motorists are usually nice. Drunks got me 1 night.. 0300 hours. On shallow down grade having opened her up down a 3km 7% grade. I was standing on pedals, stretching, dude slapped my arse but I was laughing; friggin idiots past quickly hence to fast per his reaction.. He also hit the handlebar.. I was ok, wobble and stabilize yet I wonder if he hurt his hand.. (Pretty impressed that my buttocks was slapped) Edit: gear racks, mud flaps, lots of spare tubes that don’t get used. Panniers. +$200 Gift of panniers (unused new ones that I’ll probably pack 1 day) Way less cost than fuel.. Service cost of automobile down too. One of my better choices…and just like that, Boatsie is back.
Welcome back!
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