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Cars should be banned near schools to tackle air pollution, says public health chief

  • This topic has 33 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 3 months ago by Legs_Eleven_Worcester.
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  • March 11, 2019 at 12:13 pm #29436
    hawkinspeter

    From https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cars-should-be-banned-near-schools-to-tackle-air-pollution-says-public-health-chief-a8817286.html

    [quote]Professor Paul Cosford, director for health protection and medical director of PHE, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “I’m a doctor, I see a figure of 35,000 to 40,000 people each year dying as a result of the harm that is caused by air pollution.

    “And what I also see is that the technologies are available, the things that we need to do we know about, so this is a matter of how we take this issue as seriously as we need to and how we move the technologies and the planning and all of that into reality so we actually deal with this problem for us and for future generations.”

    Asked about a proposal to ban cars from the school run, he said: “I do think that if we consider this to be an issue of future generations, for our children, let’s have a generation of children brought up free from the scourge and the harms of air pollution.

    “And that does then take you to ‘What can we do about making sure schools are at least as clean as possible?’

    “We should stop idling outside schools, we should make sure that children can walk or cycle to school, and we should make sure that schools work with their parents about how they can do their best for this.”

    Calling for a culture change, he said: “If we were having a conversation about 30,000 people dying each year because of a polluted water supply, I think we would have a very different conversation. It would be about ‘What do we need to do now and how quickly can we do it?’.”

    [/quote]

    Edit: Also seen this article from The Independent about shipping’s toxic fumes, though that’s “only” 3000 early deaths: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/ship-air-pollution-deaths-uk-asthma-heart-lung-disease-a8812486.html

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  • March 12, 2019 at 12:47 pm #937475
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    Legs_Eleven_Worcester
    srchar wrote:
    There’s already a “ban” on idling in the City of London.  It is impossible to enforce, so it isn’t.

    Well, no.  It’s not ‘impossible to enforce’.  It would be difficult and it would be politically very unwise, but it is not impossible.

    March 12, 2019 at 12:02 pm #937473
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    hawkinspeter
    srchar wrote:
    There’s already a “ban” on idling in the City of London.  It is impossible to enforce, so it isn’t.

    Automated start-stop systems should be legislated by government for all vehicles. They are cheap and would be much more effective at reducing localised pollution hotspots than easily-cheated general emissions standards.

    Again – it’s easy to enforce. Either produce a phone app that kids can use to report idling/parked vehicles or give a bit of extra cash to “lollipop” men/women to report repeat offenders.

    The thing is that there are lots of people around schools at two specific times of day, so you just need to task some of them to catch the miscreants or send along a copper at the relevant time.

    The truth is that politics is a shell-game and they don’t want you to look at what is happening in front of your nose (much better to suck air through your teeth and complain about the Irish backstop).

    March 12, 2019 at 11:54 am #937471
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    srchar

    There’s already a “ban” on

    There’s already a “ban” on idling in the City of London.  It is impossible to enforce, so it isn’t.

    Automated start-stop systems should be legislated by government for all vehicles. They are cheap and would be much more effective at reducing localised pollution hotspots than easily-cheated general emissions standards.

    March 12, 2019 at 11:21 am #937469
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    hawkinspeter

    Here’s another bit of bad

    Here’s another bit of bad news about air quality: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/air-pollution-smoking-deaths-compare-a8818851.html

    Professor Thomas Munzel wrote:
    To put this into perspective, this means that air pollution causes more extra deaths a year than tobacco smoking, which the World Health Organisation (WHO) estimates was responsible for an extra 7.2 million deaths in 2015

    March 11, 2019 at 6:18 pm #937467
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    maviczap
    kil0ran wrote:
    I just don’t get the idling thing. There’s a bloke who drops his kid at one of the after-school clubs my son goes to and then sits outside with the engine idling for an hour (on his phone of course). And it’s an SLK 300 so not exactly frugal on the petrol. It’s not like you need the engine running to power the entertainment system or heated seats is it

    With respect if they can afford an SLK300 they aren’t worried about the cost of fuel.

    I’m sorry I’m guilty of doing the school run, but I drop my daughter off away from her school, so she walks the last bit. The road to her school is too busy for her to ride to school, too many nutters on their daily commute. There’s no bus now, the bus company stopped the one she could have caught.

    In our town they could run a bus from both ends of town to the school and pick up loads of kids who get dropped off by their parents inside the school gates, including my daughter, reducing the traffic and pollution at peak times.

    March 11, 2019 at 6:05 pm #937465
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    Legs_Eleven_Worcester
    mike the bike wrote:
     

     “…… Britain is currently the most right-wing country in Europe, and one of the defining charateristics of that ideology is short-termism……”

    I was going to reply with a list of Europe’s more right-wing nations, how to spot if you live in such a place and a diatribe about the need for better spelling but then I thought sod it.  

     

    Smart move.

    March 11, 2019 at 5:40 pm #937463
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    kil0ran

    I just don’t get the idling

    I just don’t get the idling thing. There’s a bloke who drops his kid at one of the after-school clubs my son goes to and then sits outside with the engine idling for an hour (on his phone of course). And it’s an SLK 300 so not exactly frugal on the petrol. It’s not like you need the engine running to power the entertainment system or heated seats is it?

    The difficulty with exclusion zones around schools is enforcement and exceptions. Obvs disabled children have to be driven in and they won’t necessarily be brought in the same car each time. And schools are in residential areas so residents need access. As do delivery drivers. The solution is probably a community approach run by the kids themselves but that would end up falling foul of being accused of being politicising schoolchildren.

     

     

    March 11, 2019 at 4:27 pm #937461
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    mike the bike

     

     

     “…… Britain is currently the most right-wing country in Europe, and one of the defining charateristics of that ideology is short-termism……”

    I was going to reply with a list of Europe’s more right-wing nations, how to spot if you live in such a place and a diatribe about the need for better spelling but then I thought sod it.  

     

    March 11, 2019 at 3:27 pm #937459
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    hawkinspeter

    BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

    BehindTheBikesheds wrote:
    How about we go the whole hog, motorvehicles should be banned from being near people in built up areas and restricted to ‘motor’ways. Special dispensation for less able, access to certain areas during special times … let’s call this a ‘Space protection order’ which ensures the safety of everyone outside of a steel cage and who doesn’t have a powered motor over the current pedalec limit. Problem solved, it’s not where motors are to be banned, but banned everywhere except some narrow strips of tarmac they can use and at what times.

    As much as I’d enjoy that, I suspect that a few people might against such a move – they’d blame lack of replacement infrastructure etc.

    March 11, 2019 at 2:11 pm #937457
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    Tbike

    I’m think traffic wardens in

    I’m think traffic wardens in Wetminster are able to issue fines for idling so presumably this could happen all over the UK. I would have thought it woud be quite a good revenue generating scheme for coucils too. 

    March 11, 2019 at 1:36 pm #937455
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    Anonymous

    How about we go the whole hog
    How about we go the whole hog, motorvehicles should be banned from being near people in built up areas and restricted to ‘motor’ways.
    Special dispensation for less able, access to certain areas during special times … let’s call this a ‘Space protection order’ which ensures the safety of everyone outside of a steel cage and who doesn’t have a powered motor over the current pedalec limit.

    Problem solved, it’s not where motors are to be banned, but banned everywhere except some narrow strips of tarmac they can use and at what times.

    March 11, 2019 at 1:22 pm #937453
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    hawkinspeter
    Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:
    ‘”…I’m a doctor, I see a figure of 35,000 to 40,000 people each year dying as a result of the harm that is caused by air pollution”‘.

    Erm, I think you’ll find that it’s the cycle lanes that cause all of that pollution, mate.  Here… this bloke can help you to correct your errors: 

    Contact

    More seriously, who thinks that this has a chance of happening? 

    Britain is currently the most right-wing country in Europe, and one of the defining charateristics of that ideology is short-termism.   They’re not going to spend money for coppers or council officials to go and fine drivers, because let’s face it, when the real climate damage hits, the tories currently in their fifties and sixties will be long gone. 

    And for the moment, the increasingly common extreme weather events are fine, because with enough money, they can shield themselves from their effects.  

    Hmmm, the cynicism is strong with this one.

    Sometimes the only way to get a major change is to wait for the old people to die off.

    Alternatively, we could stop voting for the twats that maintain the status quo (although if voting could change things, they’d make it illegal).

    March 11, 2019 at 1:17 pm #937451
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    Legs_Eleven_Worcester

    ‘”…I’m a doctor, I see a

    ‘”…I’m a doctor, I see a figure of 35,000 to 40,000 people each year dying as a result of the harm that is caused by air pollution”‘.

    Erm, I think you’ll find that it’s the cycle lanes that cause all of that pollution, mate.  Here… this bloke can help you to correct your errors: 

    Contact

    More seriously, who thinks that this has a chance of happening? 

    Britain is currently the most right-wing country in Europe, and one of the defining charateristics of that ideology is short-termism.   They’re not going to spend money for coppers or council officials to go and fine drivers, because let’s face it, when the real climate damage hits, the tories currently in their fifties and sixties will be long gone. 

    And for the moment, the increasingly common extreme weather events are fine, because with enough money, they can shield themselves from their effects.  

    March 11, 2019 at 12:51 pm #937449
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    hawkinspeter
    Natrix wrote:
    ha, ha, can’t even stop the school run mums from parking on double yellow lines and stopping on the yellow zig zags so can’t see this being enforced………..

    It’d be trivially easy to enforce this if there was the political will.

    My favourite solution would be to enable kids/teachers to submit photos/videos of poorly parked/idling vehicles to a parking authority and receive some kind of reward for each one that leads to a successful prosecution/fine. It would literally pay for itself.

    March 11, 2019 at 12:49 pm #937445
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    ktache

    There is a case for actually

    There is a case for actually enforcing existing mobile phone legislation.  We all know that a large percentage of those waiting motorists will have their faces buried in a smartphone, and it is very simple, if your engine is on you are driving.  I’m guessing it’s the same at schools, I know that during the morning school run, a significant minority of parents will sit in traffic on their phones with their children in the car, and those waiting around train stations, it’s almost universal.

    Now, if only someone could explain this to those strictly law abiding black cab drivers in their extreemly clean and efficient diesels.

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