Why does anyone commute into town centres in cars?

Mostly what John Smith said

Mostly what John Smith said above – because it just isn’t practical for many people.

I’d commute by bike most days, except that 2 days a week, I have to drop my youngest off on the way and I can’t realistically get her, all her stuff and all my stuff on one bike, especially given that when I pick her up in the evenings, she’s too tired to go on the bike. And then there’s the weather to factor in.

I’d also throw into the mix a lack of shower facilities and secure parking for bikes at work and a pile of other discouraging factors.

If I drive into work, I get up, shower, get dressed, have brekkie with the kids, get in car, drive to work (dropping off on the way), park in free office car park and walk into work. In the evening, I then walk back to car, drive home (collecting kids on the way) and that’s about it.

If I cycle, then I get up, get cycle gear on, wonder if I’ve got enough layers and whether it’s going to rain, open garage, unlock bike, close garage, cycle to work, lock bike up in semi-secure rack, remove computer/lights/camera/bottle, walk into work, shower and get changed, have brekkie at desk while starting to work. In the evening, I then have to go and get changed, walk out to bike, re-fit lights/camera/computer/bottle, cycle home, open garage, lock bike up, have another shower and get changed and put cycling kit in another pile for washing.

Overall, the car is probably less time in total and cycling adds another pile of things to think about.

vonhelmet wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

Crippledbiker wrote:

For 12mi to take over an hour would require an average speed of below 10mph

Do you even maths bro? For 12 miles to take over an hour would require an average speed of below… wait for it… 12 miles per hour.

…You’re right, my apologies. Not sure how I managed that one, the only thing I can think of is that I left the 10 minutes on the calculator from checking my average speed over the anecdata.

No need for the arsey attitude, though. Oh, and by the by; I do happen to struggle with maths, so the belittling is greatly appreciated, thanks.

vonhelmet wrote:

vonhelmet wrote:

Crippledbiker wrote:

For 12mi to take over an hour would require an average speed of below 10mph

Do you even maths bro? For 12 miles to take over an hour would require an average speed of below… wait for it… 12 miles per hour.

This comment is wonderful!

But… Crippledbiker is technically correct, the best kind of correct.  An average speed of below 10mph would indeed lead to 12 miles taking over an hour.

dottigirl wrote:

Crippledbiker wrote:

dottigirl wrote:

It really does surprise me that more people don’t use a bike. Especially if they are disabled like me.

I hear you. A clip on handcycle is so, so much easier than pushing a manual chair directly; for starters, you’ve got proper brakes for hills, not just your fingers. Gears for ascending, too. Plus, a large front wheel rolls so much easier than castors. The big problems are cost, and perception; cycles for wheelchair users start at about 1k, and that’s for the most basic of basic. Perception is a twofold problem; there is the perception that cycling isn’t “for” less physically able persons, and there is also the concern of people getting the wrong idea -this ties into performative disability, stuff like the fact that although I can stand and walk a few steps (very slowly), I won’t do so in public – because of arguments I’ve had, accusations made towards me etc. People feel that, if they cycle, they’ll be reported as benefit frauds and lose their (potentially sole source) disability income and/or cars. Yes, this is fucked up.

I was riding with someone the other day whose husband is disabled due to cancer and associated mobility conditions. He can still cycle short distances but is scared that someone will ‘report him’ if he is seen on his bike. Therefore, he hardly gets out. 

The sheer state of this country means someone is deprived from doing something which he wants to do, which would be physically and mentally beneficial, because he’s afraid he’ll get penalised for it. It makes me want to cry. I’ve been through these hoops and won, but I had to appeal and it was bloody hard.

There was a lot of stuff on Twitter a few weeks ago about ambulatory disabled and the sheer amount of ignorance some people face.

My biggest fear is someone deciding to push me off my bike because I’m having a bad day and having to cycle (slowly!) on pavement for a short distance – I’m not visibly disabled and ride a normal bike. I’ve already been roughly shouldered by someone twice my size, luckily I had stopped at the time and was balanced enough to not fall.

Even if you’re able-bodied (apols if that’s not the right term) a bike can be easier than walking. My knees aren’t great and I’d find it hard to run a mile or walk a couple of miles but I can easily do 60 miles on a bike. Not great at standing for too long these days either. If I couldn’t cycle the only exercise I could probably do would be swimming, and that would involve driving to the leisue centre…

dottigirl wrote:

dottigirl wrote:

Crippledbiker wrote:

dottigirl wrote:

It really does surprise me that more people don’t use a bike. Especially if they are disabled like me.

I hear you. A clip on handcycle is so, so much easier than pushing a manual chair directly; for starters, you’ve got proper brakes for hills, not just your fingers. Gears for ascending, too. Plus, a large front wheel rolls so much easier than castors. The big problems are cost, and perception; cycles for wheelchair users start at about 1k, and that’s for the most basic of basic. Perception is a twofold problem; there is the perception that cycling isn’t “for” less physically able persons, and there is also the concern of people getting the wrong idea -this ties into performative disability, stuff like the fact that although I can stand and walk a few steps (very slowly), I won’t do so in public – because of arguments I’ve had, accusations made towards me etc. People feel that, if they cycle, they’ll be reported as benefit frauds and lose their (potentially sole source) disability income and/or cars. Yes, this is fucked up.

I was riding with someone the other day whose husband is disabled due to cancer and associated mobility conditions. He can still cycle short distances but is scared that someone will ‘report him’ if he is seen on his bike. Therefore, he hardly gets out. 

The sheer state of this country means someone is deprived from doing something which he wants to do, which would be physically and mentally beneficial, because he’s afraid he’ll get penalised for it. It makes me want to cry. I’ve been through these hoops and won, but I had to appeal and it was bloody hard.

There was a lot of stuff on Twitter a few weeks ago about ambulatory disabled and the sheer amount of ignorance some people face.

My biggest fear is someone deciding to push me off my bike because I’m having a bad day and having to cycle (slowly!) on pavement for a short distance – I’m not visibly disabled and ride a normal bike. I’ve already been roughly shouldered by someone twice my size, luckily I had stopped at the time and was balanced enough to not fall.

I’ve had a few…encounters with people who believe I shouldn’t be where I am with my bike.

Thing is; My bike attaches to my wheelchair. Legally, because it’s not mechanically propelled, I’m still a category I invalid carriage, which makes me a [i]pedestrian[/i].
Category II and III explicitly require mechanical propulsion – an ebike (so long as you don’t use a throttle…) is mechanically [i]assisted[/i], which is a legally distinct thing. (The askthepolice website is completely wrong, by the way, the legislation specifically states mechnically propelled)

Where I’ve had people stand in my path to attempt to block me, I’ve either taken them up on that game of chicken, or squeezed passed them at the first opportunity – I had one old codger intentionally walk up a cycle lane in Woking last weekend to try and stop me, though he didn’t really have a comeback when my reply to his demand to dismount was to point out that it’s a wheelchair, I don’t really have that option, and to enquire when his eyes were last tested.

I’m pretty sure I have been reported, but the fact that I use handcycles exclusively probably weighs in my favour.

If you’re concerned about people reacting badly to your use of a bike as a mobility aid, I suggest you have a look at wheels for wellbeing[1] – Isabel Clement uses an almost identical unit to mine, and one of their big campaigns is to try and get people to recognise that normal bikes are often used as mobility aids.
Hell, I had better mobility using a normal bicycle than actually walking towards the middle of my trip down to a wheelchair, though carrying crutches is somewhat of an art…

[1]https://wheelsforwellbeing.org.uk/campaigning/our-campaigns/

I’m driving from Hampshire to

I’m driving from Hampshire to York today. Need to be in York for a 10am meeting tomorrow, and it’s cheaper to drive, claim private mileage, and pay for an AirBnB than it is to get the train. If I lived near the airport I could have actually flown Southampton -> Leeds Bradford and it would have cost less than the train. The car option is the longest and most stressful (plus I can’t work whilst driving) but it’s the cheapest.

Fundamentally transport pricing is completely broken, and its not just for long journeys like that.

I used to cycle commute between 5 and 15 miles to my former employer in Southampton on most days but I’d still drive from time to time (motivation, laziness, weather, going on elsewhere after work) and it wasn’t horrible/expensive enough to stop me from doing it, despite that for the short version of the commute it was quicker by bike. £5 to park all day just isn’t expensive enough.

Southampton are running a Clean Air Zone consultation because it’s one of the most polluted cities in the country (because port) and they’ve specifically excluded any restrictions on private vehicles. Says it all really…

John Smith wrote:

John Smith wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

How many cities have more than 3 miles radius to the city centre, everybody within 3-4 miles should not have any excuse re distance, it’s simply nonsense, even 80 year olds can cycle that in 25 minutes. My 5 year old grandson cycled from school Friday before last to mine, it’s 2miles, despite the motor traffic holding us up it took about 20minutes.

The average commute outside London is 12.4 miles. That is over an hour for most people.

 

 “Over an hour” is not an unreasonable length of commute.  Particularly as cycle commuting can (traffic permitting) being quite enjoyable (plus, it’s not really ‘over an hour’ – I used to travel to a friend’s 16 miles away across London, and got it down to under an hour once I got the ideal route worked out…then he moved…admitttedly the first time it took nearly 3 hours because I got lost)

Besides, ‘outside London’ averages out major cities and remote rural areas (and you don’t say if that is a mean or a median – nobody suggests cycling 100 mile train ultra-commutes) so conceals how short many people’s commutes are.  Hence the point remains valid.

Simon E wrote:

John Smith wrote:

If we want to encourage people to stop driving councils need to stop treating car parking as an income stream

Why should car parking not be an income stream? Those cars spend all day on valuable land which could be better used for houses, parks etc.

John Smith wrote:

Because it is illegal. Money from parking and related activities is supposed to be ring-fenced for roads and transport, so what councils do is creatively re-label things as parking and take income intended for other bits of transport maintenance, and then shunt that money to something else, so that they can make a surplus from parking and launder the money in to other pots, when they are not supposed to, but this means that they can reduce council tax, to gain votes, and increase charges on people that are not in their constituency.

That doesn’t answer the question.  The question remains valid.  That it’s “illegal” is not some unalterable fact of nature, that law would then be the very thing that is being questioned!  Besides ‘spending on transport’ would presumably include cycle infrastructure and public transport and anti-car measures.

Awavey

Awavey</p> <p>as for the cost of parking, £2 a day is that all, you cant even buy a cup of tea in most places (and certainly not on the train) for £2, my parents local station charges £10 a day and its still more than an hours train journey to London.</p> [/quote wrote:

It may not be much in the grand scheme of things, but its another £2 a day which you have no control over and are getting nothing for. It is another disincentive to get out of the car.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

How many cities have more than 3 miles radius to the city centre, everybody within 3-4 miles should not have any excuse re distance, it’s simply nonsense, even 80 year olds can cycle that in 25 minutes. My 5 year old grandson cycled from school Friday before last to mine, it’s 2miles, despite the motor traffic holding us up it took about 20minutes.

The average commute outside London is 12.4 miles. That is over an hour for most people.

Simon E wrote:

[quote=John Smith]If we want to encourage people to stop driving councils need to stop treating car parking as an income stream

Why should car parking not be an income stream? Those cars spend all day on valuable land which could be better used for houses, parks etc.

Because it is illegal. Money from parking and related activities is supposed to be ring-fenced for roads and transport, so what councils do is creatively re-label things as parking and take income intended for other bits of transport maintenance, and then shunt that money to something else, so that they can make a surplus from parking and launder the money in to other pots, when they are not supposed to, but this means that they can reduce council tax, to gain votes, and increase charges on people that are not in their constituency.