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Rim brakes, 28mm tyres, and mudguards? Frame recommendation?

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  • January 15, 2018 at 8:56 pm #28027
    kil0ran

    As the title – I’m looking for a road frame on the race-side of the performance/comfort envelope that will run rim brakes (caliper or canti is fine) but will take a 28mm tyre with guards. Not too bothered as to frame material but I’d like it to be a lightweight build. Current rim-braked bike is a shade over 10kgs and only takes 23s with guards and my tourer is probably north of 15. Looking for something that will do for fast 20-milers on New Forest “roads” but mudguards are pretty essential. Ideally frameset rather than full bike. £1k for the frameset, doesn’t need to be new.

    Any options come to mind? 

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  • January 16, 2018 at 8:14 pm #910113
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    Prosper0

    I ride a Condor fratello

    I ride a Condor fratello through the winter. It’s a beautiful frame that can built up pretty light if you pay attention. 

    I use 28mm Panaracer Gravel Kings with full mudguards and with a little room to spare. I use the more expensive Pioggia deep drop brakes which are more than enough power with Swissstop bxp pads. It’s a perfect winter setup for me. Couldn’t recommend it enough. 

    January 16, 2018 at 8:07 pm #910111
    0
    kil0ran
    Woldsman wrote:
    kil0ran wrote:
    Hmm plenty of options there, thanks.

    Looks like the Kinesis 3T also fits the bill.

    Tempted by the Condors, neighbour has a Fratello that I covet.

    You’ve got plenty to play with on your budget, but just be aware that the 4S/4S Disk is a frameset and the T3 comes with no fork or headset gubbins.

    If you don’t go with the Triban bike – and you’re certain you won’t eventually go with the disc option of the 4S – then the 4S frameset is the one I’d go for if I could. 

     

    I’m torn – long-term admirer of Kinesis bikes (I’d love to be able to stretch to a GF-Ti) and they always look spot on in terms of fit and finish.

    The flexibility of the 4S makes a lot of sense because longer-term I won’t need the tourer as its primarily in the shed as a tagalong mule and for summer gravel commutes. Could easily end up being stripped and the wheels/calipers transferred to the 4S as an N=1 option.

    4S is three times the price of the Triban though…

    Hmm, time to look for a s/h one perhaps.

    January 16, 2018 at 7:50 pm #910109
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    Woldsman
    kil0ran wrote:
    Hmm plenty of options there, thanks.

    Looks like the Kinesis 3T also fits the bill.

    Tempted by the Condors, neighbour has a Fratello that I covet.

    You’ve got plenty to play with on your budget, but just be aware that the 4S/4S Disk is a frameset and the T3 comes with no fork or headset gubbins.

    If you don’t go with the Triban bike – and you’re certain you won’t eventually go with the disc option of the 4S – then the 4S frameset is the one I’d go for if I could. 

    January 16, 2018 at 6:51 pm #910107
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    kil0ran
    P3t3 wrote:
    Can you get the decathlon triban 500 frame-only? One of them has long drop brakes and would most likely take 28s +guards but I can’t remember the exact model.  

    I also managed to get 28s and guards to work on my CAAD8 with some coaxing and modding but it was a bit of a labour of love to keep it working well like that.  Its for sale if anybody wants a caad8 with 105.  

     

    Good point – pretty sure the new 500 has the clearance, same frame as the 100 and that has 32mm knobblies fitted as standard with a ton of clearance.  Certainly an option – it has mudguard mounts and a carbon fork. I reckon I could get ~£150 back by selling the group, tyres, wheels, and bars from it so net cost would be around £200. Bit of a bargain really – the matt red finish looks excellent, it’s mercifully short of the usual B’Twin graphics screaming “6061 Aluminium is soooo coool kids”, and it even has pannier mounts front and rear. Not many carbon forks out there rated to carry 6kgs per side on low-rider mounts – you could probably ride round the world on it! Its not particularly light at 10.3kg but its sporting a square-taper triple with heavy wheels so it should be easy to get it way below 9kgs.

    Whilst I’ve squeezed 28s into my Triban 3 clearances are super-tight, no way to fit mudguards unless you’re running 23s.

    January 16, 2018 at 3:12 pm #910105
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    P3t3

    Can you get the decathlon

    Can you get the decathlon triban 500 frame-only? One of them has long drop brakes and would most likely take 28s +guards but I can’t remember the exact model.  

    I also managed to get 28s and guards to work on my CAAD8 with some coaxing and modding but it was a bit of a labour of love to keep it working well like that.  Its for sale if anybody wants a caad8 with 105.  

    January 16, 2018 at 2:42 pm #910103
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    kil0ran

    Hmm plenty of options there,

    Hmm plenty of options there, thanks.

    Looks like the Kinesis 3T also fits the bill.

    Tempted by the Condors, neighbour has a Fratello that I covet.

    January 16, 2018 at 2:15 pm #910101
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    Anonymous

    Typo, Condor Italia RL
    Typo, Condor Italia RL

    January 16, 2018 at 2:14 pm #910099
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    Anonymous

    Aprire Inverno?
    Aprire Inverno?
    Condor Fratello?
    Condor Italian RL?
    Holdsworth Brevet?

    January 16, 2018 at 2:04 pm #910097
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    kil0ran

    Joe Totale wrote:

    Joe Totale wrote:

    I’m currently in a fairly similar situation to you as I want a new rim brake commuter/winter bike come Spring time. I’ll let my current hack put up with this winter! 

    I think this time I’m going to buy a complete bike, not a frameset. In your situation a Bowman Layhams sounds ideal although maybe a bit too pricey?

    https://bowman-cycles.com/product/layhams-copy/

    A cheaper option could be a Genesis Equalibrium frameset, not sure if it can fit 28s with guards mind.

    I think I’m going to grab a Specialized Allez when they’re back on the market as they can have mudguards with 25″ tyres, I’ll grab the Sora one as I’ll have some spare 105 parts to upgrade it myself and also some better wheels to fit on it. 

    If I had the budget that Layham’s would be mine. Gorgeous thing….

    January 16, 2018 at 12:51 pm #910095
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    kil0ran

    cyclisto wrote:

    cyclisto wrote:
    Cantis have reasons to be forgotten and calipers with such clearance will flex like spaghetti. The sensible option is disks, but if you are a vintage guy buy an outdated (and probably at a bargain price) cx frame with mini-brakes. But if you want to avoid disks, are you ready to build a bike that will be obsolete at its first ride?

    My tourer is disk braked, they’re a faff to set up and and I’ve got a perfectly good rim brake setup waiting for a frame with bigger clearance. It’s going to be used for long country rides, I don’t need to be able to stop on a sixpence, although I have no issues with the stopping power of rim brakes (5800s with stock Shimano pads).
    To my eyes they’re also bloody ugly and carry a weight penalty, and I want to make this build practical and lightweight, to different sufficiently from my heavy tourer

    January 16, 2018 at 9:59 am #910093
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    Canyon48

    Trek Domane?

    Trek Domane?

    January 16, 2018 at 9:50 am #910091
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    IanEdward

    I got some quite varied

    I got some quite varied feedback on the Equilibrium, think I’d only be confident trying to fit 25s with guards.

    Was disappointed to hear that the Allez could only realistically take 25s with guards, was sure Specialized were marketting it as being able to take 28s.

    That Layhams is gorgeous though!

    January 16, 2018 at 9:33 am #910089
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    Joe Totale

    I’m currently in a fairly

    I’m currently in a fairly similar situation to you as I want a new rim brake commuter/winter bike come Spring time. I’ll let my current hack put up with this winter! 

    I think this time I’m going to buy a complete bike, not a frameset. In your situation a Bowman Layhams sounds ideal although maybe a bit too pricey?

    https://bowman-cycles.com/product/layhams-copy/

    A cheaper option could be a Genesis Equalibrium frameset, not sure if it can fit 28s with guards mind.

    I think I’m going to grab a Specialized Allez when they’re back on the market as they can have mudguards with 25″ tyres, I’ll grab the Sora one as I’ll have some spare 105 parts to upgrade it myself and also some better wheels to fit on it. 

    January 16, 2018 at 9:10 am #910087
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    IanEdward

    Quote:

    Cantis have reasons to be forgotten and calipers with such clearance will flex like spaghetti. The sensible option is disks, but if you are a vintage guy buy an outdated (and probably at a bargain price) cx frame with mini-brakes. But if you want to avoid disks, are you ready to build a bike that will be obsolete at its first ride?

    Wow, drank the disc brake Koolaid much?

    Mini-vs are an excellent alternative to discs, stick some decent pads in them and enjoy simple, cheap, reliable and SILENT braking in all weathers. My New Year’s day ride was 5 hours in sleet, snow and streaming field run off on the Scottish central belt’s finest farm roads, my Tektro Mini-vs with Swisstop blue pads didn’t miss a beat. By comparison my CX bike with TRP Spyres with Shimano pads been a screaming, howling embarassment (and yes, the brakes are clean, well adjusted, etc. etc.).

    By all accounts, high end long drop brakes such as the TRP 957s are excellent and easily match the performance of decent standard callipers, which in themselves are perfectly good.
     

    I’m in the same boat as you kil0ran but unfortunately there isn’t much left on the market. The Holdsworth Competition apparently takes 28s easily, but doesn’t take long drop brakes so not sure about the mudguard clearance. I think it’s pretty light as steel frames go.

    The other options I’d found were the Van Nicholas Amazon (but it’s more of a fast tourer than a racer) or a Gunnar Crosshair (again, more Gravel than Race).

    The Kinesis looks like your best bet?

    January 16, 2018 at 8:00 am #910085
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    cyclisto

    Cantis have reasons to be
    Cantis have reasons to be forgotten and calipers with such clearance will flex like spaghetti. The sensible option is disks, but if you are a vintage guy buy an outdated (and probably at a bargain price) cx frame with mini-brakes. But if you want to avoid disks, are you ready to build a bike that will be obsolete at its first ride?

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