log in
register

Speed issues on flat stretches of road

  • Creator
    Topic
  • January 15, 2018 at 8:46 pm #28026
    slippy62

    I’m 5’11, 70kgs and fortunate enough to ride good quality, lightweight bikes.  I’ve been cycling a little over 3 years now.  I average 100 miles a week.  I live in the Cotswolds.  Lumpy when I need it to be, or flatish over towards the Malverns.

    I ride with two other ‘enthusasitc amateurs’ on a frequent basis and can hold my own on the climbs, but have always struggled on the downhills (I am very cautious, and sit on the back brake all the way down).  No problem so far (I’ll never master going fast downhill, and that’s fine by me).

    Where I seem to fade, or at least, drop back consistenly on my group rides is on flat stretches of road.  I just can’t figure out what I am doing wrong!  It’s very frustrating.  I am fit, have an FTP of 255w and I can easily hold a cadence of 95/100 for 8-10 minutes.  

    The guys I pedal with seem to make it look effortless, yet I am pushing threshold just to keep up, having to sprint to catch up and then work hard to keep with them.  It’s disproportionate in effort compared to climbing.  I would be much happier at a permanent 8-13% incline that suffer the misery and embarrasment of 2 miles of 1% open road.  I know the segments locally that cost me time.  I’ve gone out solo to try and crack them and just can’t get quicker.   

    Fellow Roaders, please help – your candid views are appreciated (e.g./ man up, pedal harder, do more miles)… but even better would be useful advice about how I can train to be better at this.

     

  • Creator
    Topic
Viewing 15 replies - 31 through 45 (of 50 total)
1 2 3 4
  • Author
    Replies
  • January 17, 2018 at 1:37 am #910021
    0
    wknight

    What chain rings and casette

    What chain rings and casette are you using compared to them? They may have rings more suited for the flat. Remember the pros often change theire dependant on the route. I remember watching G struggle a bit going up the climb, but coming down he beat everyone because he had rings suitable for flatter terrain. 

     

    Look at a technique call the limit point or vanishing posint, its used om motorbikes but works just as well for bikes and teaches you how to measure your speed going into a bend so you never over cook it. If you have ever wondered how a police motorbike takes bends at high speeds, this is the answer

    January 16, 2018 at 9:17 pm #910019
    0
    andyp

    fenix wrote:

    • fenix wrote:
      Definitely don’t need that much pressure in 28s. I’d have that in 23s… Less pressure will give a nicer ride. But you need to look at your position. You’re as aero as a brick. If you can get lower you’ll be far more slippy.

     

    but it’s a personal preference thing, rather than the blanket statement above…

    January 16, 2018 at 5:55 pm #910017
    0
    fenix

    Definitely don’t need that
    Definitely don’t need that much pressure in 28s. I’d have that in 23s…

    Less pressure will give a nicer ride.

    But you need to look at your position. You’re as aero as a brick. If you can get lower you’ll be far more slippy.

    January 16, 2018 at 2:05 pm #910015
    0
    andyp
    BBB wrote:
    250w is too little and 90PSI (for 28mm tyres) way too much.  

    what a strange answer. 250w is way too little for *what*? and 90PSI for 28s is way too  much…why?

     

    January 16, 2018 at 1:00 pm #910013
    0
    BBB

    250w is too little and 90PSI

    250w is too little and 90PSI (for 28mm tyres) way too much.  

    January 16, 2018 at 11:23 am #910011
    0
    CXR94Di2

    You need to be able to hold

    You need to be able to hold 95rpm for hours. Get tucked in behind a bigger rider on the flats downhill sections, I mean really tucked in.  once the road tilts upwards more than a couple of percent then you will come into your own.  If you let the draft break then your lightweight and lower power will not be enough.  Im a big rider, can stay with our club runs most weekends, but we always(well it seems that way) go up a steep drag 10-15 miles from home. I get dropped everytime by the lighter and younger riders.  It really is horses for courses. 

    January 16, 2018 at 9:08 am #910009
    0
    Htc

    Absolute power normally wins

    Absolute power normally wins out easily on the flats. 

    You said you were 70kg and your FTP was 255watts, that puts you at 3.6w/kg. If for example one of those you ride with is 80kg and has 3.5w/kg that would mean their FTP was 280watts. Thats a 25watt difference which on the flat is going to make all the difference. As gradient increases w/kg starts to take over and the longer the climb the more likely you are to pull ahead. 

    January 16, 2018 at 9:00 am #910007
    0
    madcarew

    Part 2: Training.

    Part 2: Training.

    Horses for courses. For about 75% of the population doing overstress intervals is an effective way to build strength and endurance. For about 75% of the population doing lots of miles is an effective way to build strength and endurance. For about 2% of the population nothing makes any difference at all. 

    FTP

    You should be able to hold your FTP for 20 minutes reasonably comfortably, it should be quite difficult to hold it for 40 minutes and absolute pergatory to hold it for an hour. If this doesn’t sound right then you need to have your FTP re-assessed.

    Intervals

    It really doesn’t matter how or what kind of intervals you do, to a large extent, except that they should be at or above your FTP. A general starting point is 110% of your FTP. (for you about 280W) The most important thing about intervals (to maximise returns) is that they should be done to failure, aiming to spend as much accumulated time at the interval level as possible.  

    So, for example, you set out and do 280W and hold it for as long as you can. Let’s say you get to 4 minutes before you can’t maintain it any longer. You can wait 10 minutes (riding gently) and try again. You might find you can do it for 4 minutes again, but more likely you can only do it for say 2.5 mins. You do that as many times as you can. Generally speaking, you’ll manage about 4 repeats before you can’t make the number any more. That is an effective interval session.

    Another approach is, if you know that you can hold your 110% power for 4 minutes, then do that power for 60% of that time (2.5 mins) take a 2.5 min break (pedalling gently) and do the same again. Chances are you can do this about 8 times. The first example had you spending 10 mins total at your target power, this one has you spending 20 mins. Arguably a more efffective interval session.

    At first these kinds of efforts are very difficult. There is a lot of neuromuscular programming that goes on, but perservere, and after 2-3 sessions a week for 3 weeks you will find they are considerably easier. As an example, I can do 3 mins on 2 mins off at 110% FTP for 18-20 repeats. But it takes 6 months of 2 sessions a week to get to that. As part of the neuromuscular programming, you need to do these efforts in your aero position. No point teaching the muscles to do it in an upright position and then trying to apply it in an aero position.

    Hope this all helps!!!!!!

    Enjoy!!!! 🙂

     

    January 16, 2018 at 8:37 am #910005
    0
    madcarew

    Slippy, you’ve asked a few

    Slippy, you’ve asked a few questions, with a  few parts. I’ll try some basic maths and explanations, and then some training tips. 

    Horses for courses, if you are on a decent bike wheels, tyres etc, and in lycra then 255 watts is enough for:

    32 kph if you are sitting up right riding on on the tops

    33 kph if you are on the hoods

    33.5 kph if you are on the drops

    35-36 kph if you are hunched over with a flattish back and forearms level with the ground. 

    If you’re in non-form fitting clothes you can scrub 1 kph off any of those speeds.

    The first thing is to look at your position. I’m 80kg and on my local track 255W will have me doing 37 kph. I’m reasonable aero. If you’re riding on the hoods with arms reasonably straight, and your mates are reasonably aero doing 37 kph, then up on the hoods in their slipstream with a flappy jacket then you are actually doing more work than them. Look at pros and work on imitating their style.

    As someone else said, 90-100 rpm for 10 minutes is not particularly special, but it’s not that important either. Adjust your gearing so you are in a comfortable gear. For you that might be 80 rpm. Nothing wrong with that. 

    You say you can hold your own on the climbs. Does that mean you drop them? If you simply stay with them and they are 10% heavier than you then they are putting out (+/-) 10% more power than you. Another 25W is a big difference especially noticable oin the flat. Another factor that may be playing is position on the bike and flexibility. One of the big limiters of power is how acutely bent the hip angle is at the top of the stroke. If you are climbing, especially out of the saddle, then your hip angle is very open and far higher power can be generated. It is quite possible that you aren’t particularly flexible, or you simply don’t porduce good power very bent over, in which case your FTP might be gained in a more upright position, and your buddies can keep producing it in a very aero position. The answer to this is good bike fitting, and practice being in the aero position. 

    Last bit on position is Bunch position.

    Are you any good at sitting in the bunch? Are you a few centimetres off their wheel, or are you half a metre back?

    If you’re the second rider in the pace line and you’re a few centimetres off his wheel you will save about 25% effort. If you’re half a metre back you will save 10% effort. If you’re 3rd rider in the line you will save about 35% effort if everyone is at a few centimetres gap, and 10% effortif you are half a metre back. Learn to ride good position. if you’re more than half a wheel back you are starting to lose large amounts of shelter.

     

     

    January 16, 2018 at 7:43 am #910003
    0
    Welsh boy

    For a start forget all about

    For a start forget all about the number, figures, percentages and all that crap and enjoy riding your bike.

    100 rpm for 10 minutes is not good, you should be able to do that sort of pedalling rate all day.  You say you have to work to keep up with your mates, has it ever occured to you that they are working to ride at that pace too?  Learn from the people you ride with who are better at a particular discipline, watch their gearing, pedalling speed, road position, body language etc and, if they are better than you, try doing what they are doing but dont expect an immediate improvement, you will have to work at something for a while to see a benefit.

    January 16, 2018 at 7:29 am #910001
    0
    slippy62

    Thanks ChrisB200SX and

    Thanks ChrisB200SX and BehindTheBikesheds – all noted and taken onboard.

    My riding buddies aren’t dropping me intentionally, but rather I just find that the disconnect between the relative performance on this type of terrain odd.  

    I’ll focus on power and aero position for a few weeks and assuming  it’s interesting to someone I’ll post back accordingly.

    Thanks all for your input.

    January 16, 2018 at 7:17 am #909999
    0
    Anonymous

    Simply sounds like those you

    Simply sounds like those you’re riding with are better on the flat, sometimes that’s just how it is.

    If you’re not in a race then is it actually that important that you keep up, if so why, if it’s having a negative mental effect on you then you need to change something that you are in control of. Either ride with others who won’t/can’t drop you or you accept that that’s just what it is and get on with it.

    I doubt it’s pedalling technique, aero position probably has a part of it, as above the ability to get in fairly close would help (so save a bit of effort to sustain your output) but whatever it is the end result is bothering you enough to post up to ask for advice.

    If it’s that big a deal make changes other than worrying about trying to get faster. 

    January 16, 2018 at 12:44 am #909997
    0
    ChrisB200SX

    I’d hazard a guess that you

    I’d hazard a guess that you’re just not very aero and/or you need more power.

    January 15, 2018 at 10:44 pm #909995
    0
    alansmurphy

    One of my bigger riding
    One of my bigger riding buddies can drop me if he ramps it up in 5% increments every 30 seconds for a few minutes. Weirdly, if he tries to drop me quickly I can hang on. You say you’re not confident descending, are you confident to sit on the wheel, nice and close? This is a great way to save energy and cling on, then you can build on this.

    As a lightweight spinner, hills may come naturally. Maybe some power exercises for the legs in the gym could help…

    January 15, 2018 at 10:20 pm #909993
    0
    rjfrussell

    “I just can’t figure out what

    “I just can’t figure out what I am doing wrong!  It’s very frustrating.  I am fit, have an FTP of 255w and I can easily hold a cadence of 95/100 for 8-10 minutes.  “

     

    #humblebragging

  • Author
    Replies
Viewing 15 replies - 31 through 45 (of 50 total)
1 2 3 4
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.