Solution to traditional overgearing?

AbsoluteBlack, I don’t know
AbsoluteBlack, I don’t know if I’m rambling on or helpful. Just woke with thought others might use.
I like durability, eg walking the chain.
Picture shows my favourite ride which is smooth road mostly. About 2km of dodgy bits half way. Max grade 9%.
Walking the chain, eg a 9 speed cassette.. Biggest 5 teeth count used on smallest drive cog. Outside smallest with large chainwheel.
At the moment I ride a ratio variation from 1.5ish to 3.5ish and I’m happy.
My new ratios can be worked out from previous message yet if I could reorder I like the look of 50/39 because…
25kmph average suits me at 3.5 ratio.
17 tooth is middle cog.
∴39/25=1.56 being low ratio.
39/17=2.29 being mid cog low.
50/17=2.94 being mid cog high.
50/13=3.85 being fast ratio.

Ain’t racing, extending chain life, getting good enough average speeds and unless windy as storm the big jump small enough.
Honestly,, just being a smart arse because my mates jumped all over the place with ratios and I agree with his say of, ‘ you get used to what you have, ‘ so I oil bathed 10+ years of same rear cassette (assuming I ride 50km daily — not yet).

I hope the mathematics helps, I believe they’re great ratios per pictured ride; cruising speed. A loop from spot to spot.

Ps 50×11 is bigger than 53×12

Ps 50×11 is bigger than 53×12, so that should be plenty for most unless you can chuck out 1200 plus watts in a sprint…

Pilot Pete wrote:

Chris Hayes wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Chris Hayes wrote:

After trying a 50/34 I reverted to 53/39 – 11/27.  My issue with compacts is that I have a tendency to ride – like many other riders I’ve seen – on the outer ring in a lowish gear on the cassette – to spin at a reasonable cadence.  This causes excessive component wear due to chain angles.  I suffered a bit over Devils’ Dyke at the weekend (but it’s early in the year, cold, no food on LDN-BRTN, etc.).  I spoke to my LBS about fitting a Wolf Tooth plus 30 cassette, but as I’d probably have to shorten the chain, etc. I’m not going to do it.  I may get a 28/12 though.  I can get bottom end speed with the 53.  I wouldn’t go back to a compact unless I was going somewhere very hilly – and I’m not sure that a 52/36 would make that much difference….but that said, Paolo Savoldelli rides one too these days.

With a 50/23 at 100rpm you would be doing 17mph

A 34/15 combination at 100rpm gives just under 18mph

A 34/18 at 100rpm gives just under 15mph, a 50/26-27 similarly gives about 15mph

So what speed and cadence are you trying to ride at that means you are constantly cross chaining on a compact chain set whilst on the 50 ring which you couldn’t get using the inner ring and a smaller sprocket?

PP

I generally ride at circa 32-36kph on rolling roads – at a much lower cadence than 100 – as do most riders – so the cadence/ratios whilst mathematically correct are probably not sustainable on long rides.    Re-run your numbers at a real-world cadence of 80-90… 

The OP was the one who mentioned a ‘supple high-tempo spin’. I’d equate that to circa 100rpm.

I average 85-90 and consider that to be the lower end of spinning – older school ride partners tend to churn at a much lower cadence and one of my best buddies averages 100rpm and I consider him to be a spinner… nothing unsustainable, it just depends on what people find comfortable or what they practice to get better at. But of course it will affect what gear you are most comfortable in.

My point was that with either a compact or standard chainset, or anything in between, most riders should be able to cruise along comfortably at their preferred cadence at their preferred speed without cross chaining. I cannot see a reason to swap chain sets or cassettes to achieve this. Swapping either of these would normally be to adjust the extremes of the gear ratios, I.e. lower gears to get up steeper climbs and/or higher gears for the descents…not for riding on the flat at a steady pace…

PP

I spin at 80-90 too.  Very few riders can  sustain a steady, supple 100rpm over long rides – especially competitive ones (whether with mates or races).  I ride a lot – circa 20,000 km a year, 14,000 of those on my road bike – and rarely see what I’d call capable riders spinning at that cadence:  they are most new riders or youngster Cat riders I can’t keep up with! (It’s an age thing :-))  

My comment related to my experience of riding a compact to ride – possibly a muscle memory issue – on the outer ring in a relatively low gear on the cassette.  My LBS also recognises this through the wear they see on outer rings and cassettes.  Perhaps I should get my calculator out to work our my ratios to see where my sweet spot is…but I’m off out riding now and its p*ssing it down….the first 15 minutes are always the worst. 

Pilot Pete wrote:

Chris Hayes wrote:

After trying a 50/34 I reverted to 53/39 – 11/27.  My issue with compacts is that I have a tendency to ride – like many other riders I’ve seen – on the outer ring in a lowish gear on the cassette – to spin at a reasonable cadence.  This causes excessive component wear due to chain angles.  I suffered a bit over Devils’ Dyke at the weekend (but it’s early in the year, cold, no food on LDN-BRTN, etc.).  I spoke to my LBS about fitting a Wolf Tooth plus 30 cassette, but as I’d probably have to shorten the chain, etc. I’m not going to do it.  I may get a 28/12 though.  I can get bottom end speed with the 53.  I wouldn’t go back to a compact unless I was going somewhere very hilly – and I’m not sure that a 52/36 would make that much difference….but that said, Paolo Savoldelli rides one too these days.

With a 50/23 at 100rpm you would be doing 17mph

A 34/15 combination at 100rpm gives just under 18mph

A 34/18 at 100rpm gives just under 15mph, a 50/26-27 similarly gives about 15mph

So what speed and cadence are you trying to ride at that means you are constantly cross chaining on a compact chain set whilst on the 50 ring which you couldn’t get using the inner ring and a smaller sprocket?

PP

I generally ride at circa 32-36kph on rolling roads – at a much lower cadence than 100 – as do most riders – so the cadence/ratios whilst mathematically correct are probably not sustainable on long rides.    Re-run your numbers at a real-world cadence of 80-90… 

On topic yet off topic
On topic yet off topic regarding gearing. I have ordered a cheap fixie. I can climb 5% at 3.5 and the bike is 44-16 ratio.
A local ride is a flat of 5km then a hill climb of 2km (+145m) then a rolling run off 25km (+145m, -190m). Loop.
I figure later I can walk 2km and enjoy!

Any known combinations that keep same chain please?

Eh up Broken, from a fellow

Eh up Broken, from a fellow ex infanteer! 😉

Under geared means that you are spinning out when in your top gear, I.e. you are in your 50/11 and are bouncing in the saddle at something 120rpm cadence!

If you ride predominantly flat lands with small undulations you will undoubtedly remain more in the big ring if you are that fit. I do too. Trying to use the small ring more just for the sake of it begs the question why?

Your gear combinations are there to help you keep your preferential (ideally most efficient) cadence when the gradient changes. So, on predominantly flat rides I wouldn’t expect to use my inner ring much (and indeed I don’t, I can do 100 miles on the Cheshire Plain and not select the 36 ring at all). This is not an issue though.

Having said that, when I go into the Peak District I will use the 36 significantly more, and the 52 on the down hills.

If you find you are wearing out the big ring, then so be it, just replace it when it is worn. I would suggest that riding on the flats on a ‘bigger’ small ring up front just so you use it more would potentially wear that ring out faster (less teeth spreading the load). 

It really is more about not cross chaining if you can avoid it. If you find your current combination has you in the 50 ring all the time, but up on the biggest cog on your cassette I would suggest you should have dropped to the inner ring and down the block to get a similar ratio instead.

I accept that I wear out my 52 ring more quickly than my 36 because I spend a much higher proportion of most rides on that ring. I very rarely have to change inner chainrings as they just don’t get the same amount of use, or power being put through them – I can push hard on the flats on the big ring for hours like you, but tend to try to twiddle more on the 36 and bottom gear when climbing the steep stuff, only rarely putting max power down and honking on the bars to get up a 25% ramp…

So I personally can’t understand the logic of changing chainset/ rings just to use the inner one more…

All the best

PP

What about 50/39??
What about 50/39??
I don’t think I’m as powerful yet 40 front 28 rear seems to work up 7% fairly easy.
Flat perfect weather I average 25 kmph during 20km using ratio 3.5….

At the risk of mutual back

At the risk of mutual back slapping, I’m with wellsprop on this.

I too ride 52/36 with an 11-28 cassette. I live on the edge of the Peak District and ride a combination  of flat across the Cheshire Plain or the hills of the Peak District which are characterised by short sharp inclines, most of which are well into double figures on gradient.

My old road bike had a compact chainset 50/34 with a 12-25 cassette fitted as standard. I rode this for five years and always felt the extremes weren’t quite optimal. I could have done with a lower bottom gear for the steepest climbs and a larger top gear for the ensuing descents (I descend fast!)

When I built my current road bike I opted for the 52/36 with 11-28 combination which I find gives me those more optimal extremes -36-28 is lower than my previous 34-25 and 52-11 is significantly higher than 50-12.

These combinations work well for me in the terrain I ride regularly. With a 110BCD Rotor crankset I can always swap the front rings for compact 50/34 if I so wish. This would be an option if I were to plan a week somewhere like the Pyrenees, which I last did with the compact 12-25 combination and I struggled with a lowest gear of 34-25. A 34-28 would have been much easier…

PP