Hors category climbs…

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  • #27422
    sergius

    Bit of a tale of woe this, no real point to this post other than looking for people who have also failed miserably to ride to the top.

    I generally fancy myself as a reasonably competent climber, as much as anyone living and riding in Surrey can be at least.  I’ve just gotten back from a family holiday in Lake Garda, as I often do, I hired a bike for a day to go out and see the local area.  I had hoped to visit Stelvio Pass, but the chap in the bike shop pointed out it was 130km away and at least a couple of hours by car – so that plan was out.

    He rather helpfully suggested Mount Baldo, which is on the eastern side of the lake – just north of Garda itself.  He enquired about my fitness levels; to which I responded they are pretty good (I guess that means something different to an Italian cyclist who lives in the Alps..)

    He suggested I ride around to Assenza, and then head up from there to Prada.  What I should have done was to have scouted out the climb on the net (and then chosen to ride up from Garda which was twice the distance but half the gradient), what I did do was go out for a Pizza and beer(s) before getting up early the next day to head out for a ride.

    Once I got to Assenza I probably should have listened to the voice in my head that pointed out it looked a bit steep.  I definately should have heeded the sign once leaving Assenza, which stated it was a “black” climb, with gradients of 12-20% for 10km.  I started up anyway, I was there already and didn’t have the time to dramatically alter my route.  The first km wasn’t too awful, a mix of steep stuff and some spinny bits, but then the hairpins started.

    For those of you who know the Surrey hills well; there are a couple of fairly well known nasty climbs which will get 95% of people out of the saddle crawling up, White Down and Crooknorth.  Those climbs are 14% or so and go on for maybe 3-400m; this climb (https://www.strava.com/segments/4169471) was similar, albeit over 5km long…

    The road ramped up sharply and I ended up doing the usual out of the saddle hauling the bike up the hill.  I got to the second hairpin and was already struggling, the sign on the corner said “17°” which I had assumed was the gradient.  I struggled on to the next corner, the sign said “16°”.  At this point I was on my last legs so I decided to push the bike for a bit, which became rather more than a bit as the gradient ramped up even further and I realised the signs were designating the number of the corners… Rather than the gradient.

    All in all I ended up pushing the bike for about 3-4 km up this damn thing, before it finally leveled off in a far more pleasant 5-7% for the final couple of km into Prada.  All that pushing didn’t do a great deal for my mood, nor for my cleats which were completely worn away by the rubbish road surface on the ascent.  I now found myself riding through a few snowy fields with cleats that wouldn’t engage – looking forward to descending on an unfamiliar bike with little ability to keep my feet on the peddles.

    Just to make things interesting, Italy then threw one of its sudden torrential storms into the mix (which of course I was dressed completely inappropriately for).  Needless to say a very cold, very wet and extremely careful ride back down the mountain and over to our hotel followed.

     

    I have to say, I’m not sure how anyone gets the fitness to ride up something like that; it was a monstrous climb compared to anything I’ve seen before.

    Oh well, I hope this is of use to someone – It’s been cathartic to write at least.  Time to go and replace my cleats and find a route to explore tomorrow as Ride London will close off all my usual routes.

     

    Cheers!

Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
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  • #898453
    0
    Anonymous

     

     

    I think it is often overlooked that producing your FTP at say 90 rpm is very different when you get into the mountains and your lowest gear is only allowing 65 to 70 rpm at FTP. Your muscles are having to push much harder per pedal stroke, so the physiological effect is very different.

    When I rode in the Alps a lot, I used to train on flat courses that allowed an hour or so of uninterupted riding, in a big gear that forced me to drop my cadence and push harder, which better prepares you for what is to come.

     

    To the OP,

    The first ride in the big continental mountains is always a shock, don’t be hard on yourself, you now know what it requires and can be prepared for your next visit.

    #898451
    0
    CXR94Di2

    Pablo I disagree with power
    Pablo I disagree with power not being useful. If you can hold 250 Watts for 2hours on the flat, then if you’re maintaining the same cadence, transfering the effort to a climb is very similar. It’s all about gearing. However if you’re over geared for a climb and can’t get into your comfort cadence, it then all goes out of the window, re,power, effort and comfort

    #898449
    0
    pablo

    Alot of its in the head had a
    Alot of its in the head had a similar experience due to seriously bad planning. Anything I’ve ridden before/since like it has been fine but I’ve understood exactly what I’m getting into. I’ve tried 11-28 and 11-32 on a compact in the mountains and didn’t really notice a big difference between them it’s always hard as f#ck!
    Running power helps with pacing but just because you can sit at X watts for 2 hours means nothing in the mountains. The only way of doing any training for it in the UK has got to be a trainer.

    #898447
    0
    CXR94Di2

    davel wrote:

    davel wrote:
    Yeah turbos can be a good base, and are decent for just enforcing a relentless slog. I think they’re limited if you try to train by gradient (think my Kickr has a limit of 20% IIRC? but then it’s down to your simulator to use that resistance properly) so you’ve got to make sure you’re putting out a similar wattage as you’d expect, rather than just focus on the gradient (eg. you might calculate you need to put out 300W for an hour to get up one climb). I’ve pretty much exclusively trained by FTP in TrainerRoad but am looking to simulate some real-world courses this winter, to mix it up.

    Where they’re seriously limited is the magnification of every minor bike manoeuvre when you’re right on the edge of unclipping and putting your foot down… The eeking round a hairpin, avoiding a pothole, correcting your line – all horrible mental challenges when you’re midway through a climb that you just want to end.

    Then there is the change in temperature and oxygen if you go high enough, as has been mentioned ^. Not sure I’d even want to simulate that in my garage!

    Also, YW: your escape gear is 40/28?! Or is that the chainrings?

    I use TR for FTP building, I also use it to build a mental map of power, cadence, HR. So when out on the road, I know at a certain rpm and HR, I’m roughly developing a certain power figure. I can run at near FTP for 45 mins to climb, but on multi day rides I will drop that down to 60-75% FTP to preserve energy. I’m not getting any younger, my achievement is to finish well. Zwift racing is for emptying the tank.

    #898445
    0
    CXR94Di2

    davel wrote:

    davel wrote:
    I think CXrdi2 (?!) built something Alps-busting. Not sure how he got on.

    I certainly did build a mountain climbing bike Kinesis Tripster V2. I use di2 with XT groupset. I used it first to great effect in Tenerife climbing mount Teide. The crank is 40/28 with a 11-40 Xtr Cass. I had 2 bailout gears when I began to get really tired. I’m a big rider probably 100kg loaded up so require extra gears. I like to climb with a high cadence 80+ rpm so that is why I geared my bike that way I also use it on club runs where the average speed is 18-20 over 80 miles. I can keep up on the flat upto 28 ish mph around 100-105 rpm.
    I used it on Tour de Yorkshire this year and Wales Double Dragon 122miles 12k climbing. I would of never been able to climb huge 25% inclines in a standard compact geared bike.
    I will be at Ventoux next month for a week climbing the famous mountain from several sides( subject to weather. I will let you know how I and my bike coped.

    I have several friends who are lightweight 65kg and can get away with standard groupset, but cadence is down to 60rpm on very steep inclines.

    #898443
    0
    ChrisB200SX

    Good story, entertained me

    Good story, entertained me 🙂

    Oh, Leith Hill was nice, White Down Lane and Coldharbour Lane were a bit harder.

    If you’re ever in West Berkshire, try Whitchurch Hill, just come back from there this morning, Streatley hill is just around the corner and has quite a harsh 0.5km as the middle half of the climb.

    #898441
    0
    Jack Osbourne snr

    I will now admit that last

    I will now admit that last time I did anything in the Alps I used a 53/42/30 triple with a 29 on the back. 

    Got me up everything off the valley between Annecy and Albertville including Semnoz, Forclaz, Sasies, Colombiere and Aravis.

    I had to stop once on the tough side of Forclaz (from the South) when I met a van on a hairpin and had nowhere to go. Was too steep to get restarted and had to walk a hundred metres or so round the bend.

    That triple is now on one of my older steel frames so if I go back to the Alps I’ll be doing old skool. I’m getting too old for HC or cat 1 climbs with a 34/29 bottom gear.

    #898439
    0
    davel

    I think CXrdi2 (?!) built
    I think CXrdi2 (?!) built something Alps-busting. Not sure how he got on.

    #898437
    0
    Anonymous

    The 40/28 is what I’d run up

    The 40/28 is what I’d run up front if I was going somewhere relentless and straight-line speed wasn’t the priority. Not built it yet but some other guy on here has. My plans for trips abroad went to crap this year after a bad start vto the year on the health front, only just finding my climbing legs and still nowhere near what I was doing was year. Turbo trainer for me all winter. 

    #898435
    0
    sergius

    Just got back from a lovely

    Just got back from a lovely spin exploring some new places as Ride London has closed all my usual routes off; not a lot of hills out Reigate/Gatwick way but it was good to get a proper blast in.

     

    Riding in the Alps was certainly an experience that I won’t forget, and one that I’ll be better prepared for next time!

    #898433
    0
    davel

    YW on last Sunday’s ride?
    🙂 YW on last Sunday’s ride?

    I imagine that’s his club kit too.

    #898431
    0
    Jack Osbourne snr
    davel wrote:
    Also, YW: your escape gear is 40/28?! Or is that the chainrings?

    Being from Yorkshire YW is probably ashamed to admit that… They have a saying in the Dales…

    “If thee can’t turn a 104 chainring on’t run t’shops, you’ll never be a man my son”

     

    #898429
    0
    davel

    Yeah turbos can be a good
    Yeah turbos can be a good base, and are decent for just enforcing a relentless slog. I think they’re limited if you try to train by gradient (think my Kickr has a limit of 20% IIRC? but then it’s down to your simulator to use that resistance properly) so you’ve got to make sure you’re putting out a similar wattage as you’d expect, rather than just focus on the gradient (eg. you might calculate you need to put out 300W for an hour to get up one climb). I’ve pretty much exclusively trained by FTP in TrainerRoad but am looking to simulate some real-world courses this winter, to mix it up.

    Where they’re seriously limited is the magnification of every minor bike manoeuvre when you’re right on the edge of unclipping and putting your foot down… The eeking round a hairpin, avoiding a pothole, correcting your line – all horrible mental challenges when you’re midway through a climb that you just want to end.

    Then there is the change in temperature and oxygen if you go high enough, as has been mentioned ^. Not sure I’d even want to simulate that in my garage!

    Also, YW: your escape gear is 40/28?! Or is that the chainrings?

    #898427
    0
    Anonymous

    A cautionary tale indeed.

    A cautionary tale indeed. Sounds like a fate that could have befallen me, as you’ve said, it’s easy enough to get through the steep stuff in short blasts but in the UK there’s little to prepare you for miles of climbing in one go. If I ever manage to get abroad next year then I’ll stick the 4028 on make sure I’ve got a proper escape gearing. 

    The only other thing I can think of is a decent turbo trainer and something like Bkool running the gpx route of a famous climb. 

    #898425
    0
    davel

    Seems like you’re right on
    Seems like you’re right on your limit with the gearing.

    My limit is probably around yours: on a 36/28 I’m OK with a punchy 20% (couple of hundred metres-ish). Anything over that (25%, or a sustained 20%) and I need a 34/32 – but I could spin that up most things.

    There’s no real mystery to it: I live in Cheshire, so getting any sort of proper climbing in is a 100-mile+ all-dayer into North Wales, the Lakes or the Peaks and even that is nothing on what you get overseas.

    It doesn’t take long to turn decent base fitness into decent climbing ability: on Pyrenees and even Mallorcan and Canaries holidays I’ve seen real progress. But if you don’t sustain it, no surprises – you lose it. Personally, I can live with being a not bad triathlete/TTist, and a mediocre climber who just sees what he can do uphill every now and then.

    The alternative is repeats sessions up the most brutal local climbs you can find (possibly driving to them), or go and live somewhere hilly. And then if you really get into it, Sir will be wanting the upper body of a malnourished 6 year-old, which means I wouldn’t be able to swim, or lift anything. It’s not for me.

Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
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