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Canyon Ultimate AL frame – evil little crack

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  • February 27, 2017 at 8:51 pm #26829
    matthewn5

    Hello all, sad news to report. A crack has developed in the top tube on my much-loved Canyon Ultimate AL 9.0. The frameset is nearly 5 years old, but that seems young at my age 😉 It’s done about 1600km/year so that’s probably about 7000km – mainly rough London streets on the commute, but also a bit of light touring, the DunRun, winter bike etc.

    I noticed last night there was a slight bump in the top edge of the rear brake cable port, where there hadn’t been before. I looked through a magnifying glass, and the crack is already 8mm long.

    http://imageshack.com/a/img922/4549/XasRGy.jpg

    http://imageshack.com/a/img924/7840/L4sxiO.jpg

    1. What to do? I have no claim under guarantee, as I bought the frameset second hand, and I’ve used a rack etc, so the question is: ride it and see? Or attempt a repair? It looks too hard to weld – and likely to cause stress problems if it were to be welded.

    2. What to replace it with? I’ve loved its efficiency and directness. Sharp steering and a rock solid bottom bracket area. A new Canyon frame is nearly £800, post Brexit! Ideas welcome.

     

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  • May 13, 2017 at 6:10 am #887939
    0
    Johnnyvee

    Matthewm5 did you or did
    Matthewm5 did you or did anyone report him to eBay? just think of the potential consequences and would you want that to hapen to you?

    May 12, 2017 at 8:54 pm #887937
    0
    matthewn5

    barbarus wrote:

    barbarus wrote:
    matthewn5 wrote:

    Great stuff, sounds exactly like what I want. Although in fact for me this would be a summer bike for chaingangs and faster club runs. Next step, persuade other half that I need two bikes…

    Good luck with that! It’s a great frame for a cheap build. My other half liked it too, phew 😉

    May 12, 2017 at 8:51 pm #887935
    0
    matthewn5

    racingcondor wrote:

    racingcondor wrote:
    Replace it with a Cinelli Experience. Brilliant frame, especially for the price you can get them now.

    That’s what I did! And it is an excellent frame. Cheap too.

    May 7, 2017 at 9:35 am #887933
    0
    MrGold

    matthewn5 wrote:

    matthewn5 wrote:

    PS: The chap I sold the cracked Canyon frame to has only gone and sold it on Ebay without mention of the cracked frame! This is the frame that Bikefix said couldn’t be repaired.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canyon-Ultimate-9-0-AL-F8-Road-Bike-Shimano-5800-Vision-Team-35-Carbon-Fork-54cm-/222492566874?hash=item33cd97255a%3Ag%3ABRIAAOSw-3FZBHcp&nma=true&si=DCu0dJZhF34AP4LklDTmfxKYzlE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    What a scammer. Looks nice though. Ho hum

    You should report him to ebay. What he did was dangerous and he scammed someone out of their hard earned ££.

    May 6, 2017 at 6:09 pm #887931
    0
    barbarus

    matthewn5 wrote:

    matthewn5 wrote:

    barbarus wrote:
    I’d love to hear your opinions on the cinelli, Matthew, I’ve been umming and ahhing about one for a while now.

    It’s brilliant value for the £279 I paid. So far it seems stiff enough, if not as ‘immediately impressive’ stiff as the Canyon. That’s probably only because of the BSA threaded BB means not such a width for welding the downtube. As a result it is much more comfortable over rough London roads than the Canyon, admittedly with Canyon’s brilliant VCLS seatpost moved over to the Cinelli. The steering is a delight, and the frame really comes alive over 20mph. There’s no big holes in the frame to cause stress concentration. The front forks seem pretty comfy too despite the 1 1/2″ tapered alloy steerer.  Lovely paintjob, too, in black with what looks like WW1 geometric ‘dazzle’ painting in white and silver.

    The only annoyance so far is the dowtube cable adjusters. They’re close to the head tube meaning the cable enters through a tight curve. That makes them a bit stiff to adjust. It’s a minor problem as you don’t really need to adjust them once it’s all set up properly.

    There’s plenty of clearance for 25mm tyres and mudguards, and you could probably fit 28s in there without them. So to conclude, it seems perfect for a commuter/winter bike with a bit of character.

     

    Great stuff, sounds exactly like what I want. Although in fact for me this would be a summer bike for chaingangs and faster club runs. Next step, persuade other half that I need two bikes…

    May 6, 2017 at 5:51 pm #887929
    0
    racingcondor

    Replace it with a Cinelli
    Replace it with a Cinelli Experience. Brilliant frame, especially for the price you can get them now.

    May 6, 2017 at 8:43 am #887927
    0
    tritecommentbot

    Yeah, real scummy move that.

    Yeah, real scummy move that. Hope he gets chargebacked.

    May 6, 2017 at 8:10 am #887925
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    iandusud

    What a scumbag!

    What a scumbag!

    May 5, 2017 at 12:15 pm #887923
    0
    matthewn5

    PS: The chap I sold the

    PS: The chap I sold the cracked Canyon frame to has only gone and sold it on Ebay without mention of the cracked frame! This is the frame that Bikefix said couldn’t be repaired.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canyon-Ultimate-9-0-AL-F8-Road-Bike-Shimano-5800-Vision-Team-35-Carbon-Fork-54cm-/222492566874?hash=item33cd97255a%3Ag%3ABRIAAOSw-3FZBHcp&nma=true&si=DCu0dJZhF34AP4LklDTmfxKYzlE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    What a scammer. Looks nice though. Ho hum

    April 5, 2017 at 5:21 pm #887921
    0
    matthewn5

    barbarus wrote:

    barbarus wrote:
    I’d love to hear your opinions on the cinelli, Matthew, I’ve been umming and ahhing about one for a while now.

    It’s brilliant value for the £279 I paid. So far it seems stiff enough, if not as ‘immediately impressive’ stiff as the Canyon. That’s probably only because of the BSA threaded BB means not such a width for welding the downtube. As a result it is much more comfortable over rough London roads than the Canyon, admittedly with Canyon’s brilliant VCLS seatpost moved over to the Cinelli. The steering is a delight, and the frame really comes alive over 20mph. There’s no big holes in the frame to cause stress concentration. The front forks seem pretty comfy too despite the 1 1/2″ tapered alloy steerer.  Lovely paintjob, too, in black with what looks like WW1 geometric ‘dazzle’ painting in white and silver.

    The only annoyance so far is the dowtube cable adjusters. They’re close to the head tube meaning the cable enters through a tight curve. That makes them a bit stiff to adjust. It’s a minor problem as you don’t really need to adjust them once it’s all set up properly.

    There’s plenty of clearance for 25mm tyres and mudguards, and you could probably fit 28s in there without them. So to conclude, it seems perfect for a commuter/winter bike with a bit of character.

     

    April 5, 2017 at 5:09 pm #887919
    0
    matthewn5

    Right, Bikefix said they

    Right, Bikefix said they could fix it, preferably with carbon, but at quite a price, and they advised that it would probably crack again.

    I’ve sold it to a chap who was looking for a cheap turbo trainer frame.

    Thanks for all your help and advice!

    March 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm #887917
    0
    matthewn5

    OK, Bikefix say they can fix

    OK, Bikefix say they can fix it, but it won’t be pretty. I’ll report back!

    March 23, 2017 at 10:06 pm #887915
    0
    matthewn5
    dottigirl wrote:
    It’s not possible to see the inside of the tube, but I’m betting the cable has rubbed away at the inside of the tube. This has created a weak point. The insert may well have prevented that, and guided the cable to a more desirable angle.

    If second hand, buyer beware. He’s bought a frame with an essential part missing, and there’s not much comeback to that – Canyon could say the part was initially present.

    That’s a good theory, and you’re right about the cable being slightly short, but it doesn’t appear to be the case here.

    Here’s some more photos:

    https://img2.brain4.photobox.com/99961667dcd9ae37817d240004cbba970c9ff8bf05ea7379a959e20e8cc03707c6d12fb1.jpg

    There’s no visible reduction in thickness at the edge, and no sign of ‘polishing’ of the inner surface, looking at it under a bright light. There’s a tiny amount of polishing of the edge of the hole, if anything.

    https://img2.brain4.photobox.com/25666975972695182db7f97c36d45b2826e170c72cc62d57a7317c3f9f000ec091546984.jpg

    This shows that the section resting against the cable has actually gone inwards… and the section forward has gone outwards. You can feel it.

    So all in all, I think it’s probably a design or manufacturing fault. With a straightedge you can see the top tube is slightly concave on the left and straight on the right. Probably always was stressed through the asymmetry.

    BUT since I bought it second hand, and yes, ran it with a full outer instead of the plastic fitting, I don’t think Canyon are under any obligation.

    I’m going to take it to Bikefix, see what they can do.

     

     

    March 18, 2017 at 10:48 pm #887913
    0
    dottigirl
    SuperPython59 wrote:
    It’s BS, it was me that said the cable shouldn’t be stressing the frame and for it to crack and that’s absolutely accurate. To think that a plastic grommet/insert would have prevented that is delusional or just a plain lie.

    Back to my original point. Without examining the frame in person, I respectfully disagree:

    A brake cable is under tension. Even without much tension, a cable can rub substantially at a frame. Alloy is soft, but we’ve seen this with a couple of other brands where they didn’t get their insertion angle or frame protection right (e.g. Mekk – the cables were actually eating through the frame). My first road bike (also alloy) had dips on the head tube and other areas where cables rubbed over the course of a couple of years. Some of these cables were relatively slack, but they still rubbed.

    Look at the angle the cable enters the brake caliper. That’s not good. The cable should sit square, and it doesn’t. Even if there’s no tension exerted when not in use (and there should be to keep the pads near the wheel), there will be force when the brake is used.

    It’s not possible to see the inside of the tube, but I’m betting the cable has rubbed away at the inside of the tube. This has created a weak point. The insert may well have prevented that, and guided the cable to a more desirable angle.

    If second hand, buyer beware. He’s bought a frame with an essential part missing, and there’s not much comeback to that – Canyon could say the part was initially present.

    March 18, 2017 at 8:31 pm #887911
    0
    matthewn5
    beezus fufoon wrote:
    matthewn5 wrote:
    CXR94Di2 wrote:
    Get someone to TIG weld it,  it will cost only a few quid.  In the London  area there must be loads of TIG welders.

    Anyone know a good TIG welder in London?

    bikefix in lamb’s conduit street  020 7405 1218 

    Cheers I’ll give them a try!

     

    superpython wrote:
    ‘d be wanting a replacement or a proper repair done at their expense, get a quote for a repair and if they refuse just state you’ll go to trading standards

    Problem is I bought it second hand, so I have no consumer rights, according to that website…

     

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