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Rubbish legs or not enough Fuel?

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  • March 14, 2015 at 8:24 pm #23503
    sergius

    I’ve been building back up the miles after a fairly lax Christmas period where I didn’t do more than one 30 mile ride a week for a couple of months.

    I’m finding that once I hit ~40-45 miles or so, my legs just don’t seem to have much left in the tank. I’ll manage another 20 miles or so, but it’s not what I’d call fun.

    I’ve just been blaming my fitness and have been slowly increasing distances again. I’m doing about 60 miles a week at the moment, last summer I was regularly doing 80 or so (knee problems aside).

    I was looking at some of the data on my new Garmin, and I started paying attention to the “calories burned” number. Today for example it read 2450 or so, considering my “normal” daily intake is 2500, that’s a fairly high number and it got me thinking.

    Generally, when fuelling for a ride like today’s (4 hours), I’ll have a big bowl of porridge & protein powder (~400 calories) along with 4-5 slices of malt loaf while I’m out (~130 calories each).

    There’s obviously a bit of a deficit there – is that a problem though? I’m not trying to lose any weight (5’9″ and 10 stone), there’s little left to lose.

    It doesn’t feel like “proper” bonking – before I started cycling more seriously I spent a summer commuting to work on my MTB without increasing my food intake – I used to feel like hell for the last 5 miles or so of the journey home – but on the plus side I lost three stone in three months 🙂

    So, is the consensus to eat enough to match what you burn? Or are my legs just a bit rubbish at the moment and I need to step up the training.

    Cheers,

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  • March 18, 2015 at 9:47 am #837027
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    dotdash

    Man of Lard wrote:dotdash

    Man of Lard wrote:
    dotdash wrote:
    Anyway I was out on a ride today and I’ve noticed that I feel like I have no energy at all.

    You bonked. Need to review your energy strategy (in short what you eat & drink, how much of it and when – but against what youre expending in riding)

    Yea I knew that as it was happening, I think last year I was doing these distances without food and just with water 2 or 3 times a week. But being of the bike for 7 months and this being only my 7 ride back means my targets have been reset.

    March 18, 2015 at 7:33 am #837025
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    Judge dreadful

    I eat a banana for breakfast,
    I eat a banana for breakfast, then go and do a ride of between 130 and 170 miles, a fair bit. I stop for a coffee and a cake, at about half distance, then top up my energy levels with jelly babies, and pistachio nuts, on the return. I regularly end up with a calorie deficit of 3000 after one of these rides, so if I know I’m doing a 5000 calorie ride on (for example) the Friday, I’ll use an app such as myfitnesspal, during the week, to try and get a calorie excess of about 4000, in the week leading up to the ride. Thus far, it’s worked quite well. I rarely bonk on a big ride, if I think I’m heading for the bonk, I’ll use the aforementioned emergency supplies to try and avoid it. I’ve found that if I do bonk, the best way to emergency fuel to get home, is to add coconut oil to a double shot espresso. That really hits the spot.

    March 18, 2015 at 12:07 am #837023
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    Man of Lard

    dotdash wrote:Anyway I was

    dotdash wrote:
    Anyway I was out on a ride today and I’ve noticed that I feel like I have no energy at all.

    You bonked. Need to review your energy strategy (in short what you eat & drink, how much of it and when – but against what youre expending in riding)

    March 17, 2015 at 7:24 pm #837021
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    dotdash

    Anyway I was out on a ride
    Anyway I was out on a ride today and I’ve noticed that I feel like I have no energy at all. Hills were just hard work for me, but I noticed the rear wheel was slightly out. I was so knackered at the end of my ride today that I just stopped peddling on a hill and fell over (lucky it was on a closed road).

    I’m still building up my distance at the moment but I think I’m going to do one short ride, one medium and a longer ride which pushes my distance. Also hoping to have my road bike back on the road soon which will help.

    March 17, 2015 at 7:17 pm #837019
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    dotdash

    sergius wrote:
    I’ve been

    sergius wrote:

    I’ve been buying the pre-sliced ones, so roughly 12 slices per loaf. I’ll generally consume 4 per ride, so 1/3 of a Soreen loaf.

    Pre sliced screen comes as 11 slices per loaf and it upsets me how can you share 11? what they have done is used 10 blades to cut it, when they should have used 11. This is a very upsetting for me.

    March 16, 2015 at 9:04 pm #837017
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    sergius

    CXR94Di2 wrote:Your mileage

    CXR94Di2 wrote:
    Your mileage seems a little on the low side for endurance riding. Try and build it up to 125-150 miles a week With a least one ride of 60+ miles of steady riding. The other rides can be shorter but with interval sessions built in.

    drink(well sip) upto 1 litre per hour and eat complex carbs of no more than 50g carbs (including drink if it’s a carb drink.) Per hour

    I wish 🙂 I get enough grief disappearing out on the bike for 4-5 hours on the bike once a week on the weekend 🙂

    I get to do some bits in the gym during the week and I’ll experiment with commuting to work again when the daylight returns – but it’s a pretty crappy 60 mile round trip through London and out the other side.

    March 16, 2015 at 8:58 pm #837015
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    Simon E

    Garmin calorie counter is a
    Garmin calorie counter is a made-up number. Ignore it.

    Regardless of what might be the cause, I suggest you try changing your food timings.

    A *small* bowl of something light like Rice Krispies before you leave, or better still nothing. I suspect that by eating a large portion before starting your body is set to expect more of the same.

    Carry and consume at least 2 water bottles, ideally 750ml. Also carry a malt loaf cut into 4 slices/chunks. I like Snickers, cut in half and stowed in the seat pack so I have to stop to get at them.

    Don’t touch the malt loaf/Snickers/whatever until you’ve been riding for at least 1.5 or 2 hours.

    When you get home blend a banana with milk and a scoop of protein powder, then a protein-dense lunch with real food a little while afterwards – beans on toast, tuna sarnie, scrambled eggs or similar.

    March 16, 2015 at 8:53 pm #837013
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    CXR94Di2

    Your mileage seems a little
    Your mileage seems a little on the low side for endurance riding. Try and build it up to 125-150 miles a week With a least one ride of 60+ miles of steady riding. The other rides can be shorter but with interval sessions built in.

    drink(well sip) upto 1 litre per hour and eat complex carbs of no more than 50g carbs (including drink if it’s a carb drink.) Per hour

    March 16, 2015 at 8:23 pm #837011
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    sergius

    I am comparing with last
    I am comparing with last summer, I figured a bit more of my fuel would go towards keeping warm – but hadn’t really factored in muscle efficiency vs. temperature.

    I don’t have a lot to background to base things on, I only got my road bike last winter and didn’t have the gear to go out much then. So I’ve only really one summers’ of experience to dwell on.

    March 16, 2015 at 7:19 pm #837009
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    Must be Mad

    Build up the endurance slowly
    Build up the endurance slowly – if you are used to doing 30mile rides, then yes, the legs will fell fine at 30 miles, and dead by 35. But next time, you should feel fine doing the 35. Just build up the distance slowly.

    Also – you are comparing your performance to last summer?
    Very dangerous, as this time year the cold air is more dense, the winter weighs more then summer garb and muscles are less efficient when cold. You also consume more calories just keeping yourself warm. So its very difficult to compare performance now with what you were doing in the summer.

    Work on building fitness right now, and then when the temperatures warm up, you should find the performance comes back to you.

    March 16, 2015 at 6:27 pm #837007
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    ianj

    agree 100% your not eating
    agree 100% your not eating enough when on the bike…..

    March 16, 2015 at 6:13 pm #837005
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    daddyELVIS

    As you slowly build, your
    As you slowly build, your endurance will improve.

    Remember, the Sky GC riders don’t eat anything 😀

    March 16, 2015 at 5:22 pm #837003
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    sergius

    Goyt wrote:If you’re getting

    Goyt wrote:
    If you’re getting 10 slices out of your Soreen loaf you are certainly under-fuelled, if you’re getting 5 slices per loaf that’s about 33-34 grams of carbs per slice which is under (what I think is) the recommended 40-60g of carb intake per hour.

    I think you could be starting to feel that deficit in the last hour or so of a long ride 4 or 5 hour ride, especially if you are also increasing the length of your rides.

    Try adding some energy drinks and perhaps swapping the 4th or 5th slice for a couple of more quickly digestible gels to get the carbs in before you’ve finished your ride.

    I’ve been buying the pre-sliced ones, so roughly 12 slices per loaf. I’ll generally consume 4 per ride, so 1/3 of a Soreen loaf.

    I’ve already arranged with my wife to pick up some extra bananas for next weekend – I’m not allowed to break into the children’s supply of fruit!

    March 16, 2015 at 5:10 pm #837001
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    Goyt

    If you’re getting 10 slices
    If you’re getting 10 slices out of your Soreen loaf you are certainly under-fuelled, if you’re getting 5 slices per loaf that’s about 33-34 grams of carbs per slice which is under (what I think is) the recommended 40-60g of carb intake per hour.

    I think you could be starting to feel that deficit in the last hour or so of a long ride 4 or 5 hour ride, especially if you are also increasing the length of your rides.

    Try adding some energy drinks and perhaps swapping the 4th or 5th slice for a couple of more quickly digestible gels to get the carbs in before you’ve finished your ride.

    March 16, 2015 at 1:31 pm #836999
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    Colin Peyresourde

    You just need to ensure you
    You just need to ensure you are taking on calories as you go. It might also be that you are working too hard – there is a double whammy effect when your heart rate elevates. Firstly, you consume blood sugars more quickly – more so if you are in the red (or working anaerobically). And secondly, your digestive tract stops working if you are working too hard (the blood is pumped elsewhere)…..which is how Michele Ferrari was able to calculate if a rider was going to crack – you can’t work at a particular rate for too long without bonking.

    Basically ensure that you have an energy drink in one of your bidons (4:1 is a fav) and that you drink every 15 minutes on longer rides, and nibble something every 30-45 minutes. That should keep you going for longer.

    Keep a gel with you as a ‘get out jail free’ card. Gels are nasty and you don’t want to use them, but If you are tanking it’ll keep you going, but as soon as you reach for it you’ll need to be eating and drinking as much as you can because you will be on empty.

    If you are riding at intensity you need will only be able to ride for 2-3 hours max without refuelling. After that you’ll have used all your blood sugars and glycogen stores. So what you describe seems to fit in with bonking perfectly.

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