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Right to be cynical about Sky

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  • July 16, 2015 at 11:00 am #835529
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    700c

    This thread’s been going a
    This thread’s been going a while!

    @Ianrobo (and others) there’s a difference between being a realist and cynical (fine by me), and touting unfounded accusations (not so fine)

    Remain cynical, sure, that’s your right, but until there is proof of guilt people really shouldn’t accuse team Sky, or others, of doping.

    July 16, 2015 at 10:08 am #835527
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    CXR94Di2

    No one is disputing that in
    No one is disputing that in earlier years that alot of riders were using PEDS, but now you’re assuming and it’s a big assumption that in this current time where alot of teams are being more open about testing for drugs.

    Do you really think any team would expose themselves given how lance Armstrong has been through the mincer, his reputation and financial position destroyed?

    Do you believe that this knave fella is going around behind Brailsford back doping all the team, or do you believe Brailsford is part of the doping sanction?

    Do you think the top riders would risk absolutely everything only to have it all taken away later?

    There will always be someone who will take PEDS but these are now few a far between. Like Cavendish said to a journalist after being asked about drugs “how do you know some journalist in this room isn’t fu#king your wife when you’re at work”

    You don’t!

    Stop harping on about something that you cannot prove yourself. If you come up with EVIDENCE to the contrary and are willing to stand by it and possibly lose all your money, house, wife and family in a court case of libel, then I will listen to it. But you will be berated constantly until you stop spreading rumours

    July 16, 2015 at 9:22 am #835525
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    ianrobo

    Must be Mad wrote:Quote:The

    Must be Mad wrote:
    The issue about being a conspiracy theorist is that anything can be twisted to accommodate the one dimensional thinking that typifies these people.

    The problem with conspiracy theorists – is that its like a religion. The conclusion is reached first, and then ‘logic’ is applied (n matter how warped) to fit the conclusion, and if you try to question logic or conclusion you are clearly a sinner and in cohorts with the evil people perpetrating the conspiracy.

    rubbish no one is a conspiracy theorist here but a realist on that era. As I just typed and ask yourself do you believe that in an era when teams en masse were doping that Knaven was one of the very few who did not ?

    In this case this is not civil law, I take it that everyone in that era was a doper.

    July 16, 2015 at 9:21 am #835523
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    ianrobo

    Martyn_K wrote:Guilty by

    Martyn_K wrote:
    Guilty by association is a minefield to say the least. Being in the same place at the same time as an alleged offence does not make you guilty and would not standup in any judicial procedures.

    I appreciate that effective EPO testing was not in place until 2000. So that does open up those riding before this time as rumour targets.

    Legally, and let’s not forget that this is a legal process, there is no evidence that indicates that Knaven doped during his career. There is also no evidence that Froome or any other Sky rider is doping at this current time.

    Therefore the rumours are just that. Career damaging, cycling damaging, unfounded rumours.

    So no way of proving he doped but was on a team of many dopers we are supposed to trust his word like we did with Lance for many years ?

    Is that what you are saying, I think it is fair to say that in that era the vast majority were dopers and the rare few who were not were either kicked out of the peloton or failures.

    Do you believe a clean rider won a grand tour in that era ?

    July 16, 2015 at 9:05 am #835521
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    Must be Mad

    Quote:The issue about being a

    The issue about being a conspiracy theorist is that anything can be twisted to accommodate the one dimensional thinking that typifies these people.

    The problem with conspiracy theorists – is that its like a religion. The conclusion is reached first, and then ‘logic’ is applied (n matter how warped) to fit the conclusion, and if you try to question logic or conclusion you are clearly a sinner and in cohorts with the evil people perpetrating the conspiracy.

    July 16, 2015 at 9:03 am #835519
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    daddyELVIS

    Martyn_K wrote: there is no

    Martyn_K wrote:
    there is no evidence that indicates that Knaven doped during his career.

    …you might want to look into the case further, then see if your opinion stays the same.

    July 16, 2015 at 8:57 am #835517
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    Martyn_K

    Guilty by association is a
    Guilty by association is a minefield to say the least. Being in the same place at the same time as an alleged offence does not make you guilty and would not standup in any judicial procedures.

    I appreciate that effective EPO testing was not in place until 2000. So that does open up those riding before this time as rumour targets.

    Legally, and let’s not forget that this is a legal process, there is no evidence that indicates that Knaven doped during his career. There is also no evidence that Froome or any other Sky rider is doping at this current time.

    Therefore the rumours are just that. Career damaging, cycling damaging, unfounded rumours.

    July 16, 2015 at 8:19 am #835515
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    ianrobo

    Martyn_K wrote:There has been

    Martyn_K wrote:
    There has been no conviction for doping in his professional career. That is the parameter for guilt, a positive test. Or a confession of course. In the absence of both an individual should be presumed innocent.

    It’s probably time you cast your hand in to the wind and pulled another rumour out of the breeze.

    a rumour ?

    You really thing given the time, given the teams he was he did not dope ? Thats fantasy land, most if not all doped in the mid late 90’s he would be very unique if he did not. In 1998 there was no test for EPO for example so how could he have been caught ?

    This is why IMHO we need a truth and reconciliation commission. We need all of those in the past to admit to their doping and then there is no query over him.

    At least we know Vino doped so Astana don;t bother with lies like they are a totally clean team which Sky try to, when it is bollocks.

    July 16, 2015 at 8:07 am #835513
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    Martyn_K

    daddyELVIS wrote:CXR94Di2

    daddyELVIS wrote:
    CXR94Di2 wrote:
    daddyELVIS wrote:

    2) it’s not a ‘story’ – it’s true, like many other instances where Sky have failed their OWN test of being clean!

    Now we all now know you’re a comedian if you believe what’s written in newspapers :D

    …so Knaven isn’t a DS at Sky then?

    He is. It is worth reminding you again that at no time has Knaven failed a drugs test. There has been no conviction for doping in his professional career. That is the parameter for guilt, a positive test. Or a confession of course. In the absence of both an individual should be presumed innocent.

    It’s probably time you cast your hand in to the wind and pulled another rumour out of the breeze.

    July 16, 2015 at 8:02 am #835511
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    CXR94Di2

    Newspaper articles are full
    Newspaper articles are full of maybe this and maybe that with an odd fact dropped in to give it credibility. Just because someone may have had a dodgy past doesn’t mean that everyone they come in contact with becomes tainted with their reputation.

    The issue about being a conspiracy theorist is that anything can be twisted to accommodate the one dimensional thinking that typifies these people.

    July 16, 2015 at 8:00 am #835509
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    fukawitribe

    daddyELVIS wrote:CXR94Di2

    daddyELVIS wrote:
    CXR94Di2 wrote:
    daddyELVIS wrote:

    2) it’s not a ‘story’ – it’s true, like many other instances where Sky have failed their OWN test of being clean!

    Now we all now know you’re a comedian if you believe what’s written in newspapers :D

    …so Knaven isn’t a DS at Sky then?

    By their own rules, Sky haven’t failed – although we might well argue that in all likelihood Knaven was doping at TVM. The Inner Ring had a nice piece on this earlier this year.

    Servais Knaven’s Murky Past

    July 16, 2015 at 7:18 am #835507
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    daddyELVIS

    CXR94Di2 wrote:daddyELVIS

    CXR94Di2 wrote:
    daddyELVIS wrote:

    2) it’s not a ‘story’ – it’s true, like many other instances where Sky have failed their OWN test of being clean!

    Now we all now know you’re a comedian if you believe what’s written in newspapers :D

    …so Knaven isn’t a DS at Sky then?

    July 16, 2015 at 7:03 am #835505
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    CXR94Di2

    daddyELVIS wrote:
    2) it’s not

    daddyELVIS wrote:

    2) it’s not a ‘story’ – it’s true, like many other instances where Sky have failed their OWN test of being clean!

    Now we all now know you’re a comedian if you believe what’s written in newspapers đŸ˜€

    July 16, 2015 at 3:25 am #835503
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    daddyELVIS

    issacforce wrote:so many

    issacforce wrote:
    so many cynics, cmon team sky, if u dont like it dont watch it, plus it was the mail on sunday, that did the story, the paper that hates cyclists

    1) there’s more to pro cycling than Team Sky and the Tour, so why wouldn’t we watch?

    2) it’s not a ‘story’ – it’s true, like many other instances where Sky have failed their OWN test of being clean!

    July 16, 2015 at 1:43 am #835501
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    issacforce

    so many cynics, cmon team
    so many cynics, cmon team sky, if u dont like it dont watch it, plus it was the mail on sunday, that did the story, the paper that hates cyclists

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