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Re: cadence – why can’t I peddle faster and do I really need to?

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  • October 23, 2014 at 9:03 pm #22629
    roadie69

    Hi,
    First time poster, sorry if it’s in the wrong place on the forum.

    I read and hear that a cadence of 90+ is the most efficient rpm for cycling. I’ve been riding a bike, mtb and road for most of my life, but occasionally competitively for the last 15 years. I’m now 40. On the turbo I struggle to get over 80rpm at a constant power output – looking at what I’m doing on long climbs I’m lucky to average 65rpm. Riders that I ride with at the same sort of pace are up in the high 80’s, low 90’s. If I drop a gear or 5 and try and match their cadence I get lactate building very quickly and I drop off the pace.

    I’ve a mate who has just started riding and I’ve given him some ‘advice’ he we’ll over a 100kg and my age. His can maintain a cadence of well over 90 on the trainer and on the road. What gives?

    Watching old clips of riders in the late 80’s of earlier the cadence seems much slower (ie lemond). My question is, do I really need to focus on my hideously slow legs? Or do I just ignore it. I don’t get as many knee problems as I used to and wonder if I’m just not physiologically able to increase my cadence that much. I’ve tried in small increments (like trying to ride at 81rpm, rather than 80 rpm on the trainer) but hit a lactate brick wall on every attempt, and as it’s painful to try it reduces my motivator to carry on.

    Any ideas?

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  • October 25, 2014 at 11:13 pm #818861
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    mtbtomo

    As per the other posts, make
    As per the other posts, make sure your saddle is the right height and position (fore/aft). If it is, and you can keep up with your riding partners and can go the distance then I wouldn’t worry too much.

    Some of the pros pedal at seemingly unnatural high cadences – doesn’t mean we all have to though!

    I like pushing a higher gear than I probably should, but as my body manages ok with the stress and I’m fine keeping up and going the distance, I’m not too bothered about what my actual cadence is.

    I only have a cadence sensor on the bike on the turbo. Out on the road there’s other stuff to worry about first! 🙂

    October 25, 2014 at 10:35 pm #818859
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    Colin Peyresourde

    It’s mostly about getting
    It’s mostly about getting used to the gearing. I would just persist with training at the higher cadence. If you ride a mountain bike or other bike you’ll find that a lower cadence than the 90 works, but you just have to keep with it.
    In your post you don’t say if you’re travelling at a faster speed or a higher gear when spinning out. I would drop a gear and match your speed. Your knees will thank you for it.

    October 25, 2014 at 7:51 pm #818857
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    exilegareth

    I worked hard this year at
    I worked hard this year at raising cadence – I’m new to road biking, and often guilty of stamping on the pedals rather than spinning the right gear.
    I found the answer was thirty or forty five minute sessions on the static bike where I went up in 5 rpm steps per minute, then back down again. It taught me to be conscious of my cadence, and I added in little mantras about being aware of all the muscles that contribute to a pedalling stroke – so if you’re one of the people I’ve overtaken (or who’s overtaken me) while chanting ‘Stomach and thighs stomach and thighs’ (so that I remember to pull up on the reciprocal half of each stroke, not just press down on half the stroke) I apologize.

    October 25, 2014 at 10:25 am #818855
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    Nzlucas

    Good post Quince, if you have
    Good post Quince, if you have ever played around with a power meter it interesting when you watch how you can put out the same amount of Watts at 90+rpm as you can at 60rpm. It just feels completely different yet the number is there showing you that your making the same amount of effort.

    To the OP, although you will genetically have a preposition towards a certain mix of slow and fast twitch muscle fibres, but you can train lactic threshold. It will not happen overnight, but if you stick at it your threshold will get better. You will find your legs will change over time also. I naturally lost some bulk when I started focusing on hills and a slightly higher cadence. I am not a ‘spinner’ by any means but 80-90rpm is good for me in most situations and higher in the few races i have done. I lost weight at the same time. Have a hill you ride often and once a month give it a effort and track your progress, its good to have the positive reinforcement.

    October 25, 2014 at 10:05 am #818853
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    Quince

    I think I’m far from perfect,
    I think I’m far from perfect, but the way my cadence has naturally increased is through a developing more efficient pedalling motion. Like you, I rode a single speed (fixed gear, to be precise) for quite a long time, and rather than helping me spin, I think it turned me into more of a grinder.

    The times when I would be required to ‘load’ the pedals most heavily would be when going uphill, which naturally gives you a harder gear (in fact, I’d normally get out the the saddle at any hint of a hill), so the idea of ‘spinning’ up hills was really unnatural when I climbed back on a gear road bike. On a similar thread, whenever I was going downhill, I was scared of ‘spinning out’, and so wouldn’t really put much force into the pedals at all.

    I had quite a lot of relearning to do when I bought another proper road bike; mainly how to go fast without pedalling slow. It’s kind of simple to go fast in a high gear – you just push hard wherever you can and bingo: speed. In a low gear, there’s nothing really to ‘push hard’ against, so I’d find if I tried to keep a high cadence, it would require dropping a load of gears and then just flailing my legs around, without really going anywhere. One thing I’ve got better at is applying a moderate amount of pressure, all the way around the pedal stroke (or, more of the way around it). I’m applying less pressure, but over a larger proportion of the pedal stroke, which equates to roughly the same amount of power down (I think), as well as being more efficient.

    As for why you’d want to, I’ve found that I can incorporate certain muscles better into a lighter, smoother pedal stroke (only the bigger pistons would really get involved in the high gears), but there’s also something more subtle I’ve noticed, involving the terrain.

    If I’m already pushing quite a high gear, then the ‘ceiling’ where that becomes ‘too high’ isn’t far off. That means when the gradient turns up – even by a little – I either have to stand up, change gear under load (because of the high gear) or back of my pedalling and change gear, which results in a drop of speed. If I’m comfortable doing the same speed in an easier gear, and the gradient raises its head briefly, then at worst, I’ll just be pushing against the same resistance I was comfortably cycling at previously. The road might level out or drop relatively quickly, and not demand getting out of the saddle or changing gears, as in the previous example.

    In short, being able to maintain a higher cadence should give you more room for ‘modulation’ when the terrain is a bit more rolling, and mean you don’t have to keep grabbing handfuls of gears, or keep jumping out of the saddle every few seconds. However, everyone has their own preferences, so I wouldn’t advice getting too fixated over a specific number.

    I’m sorry if that’s a bit long, but it’s something I’ve been thinking about quite a lot too. I hope there’s something in what I’ve said.

    October 25, 2014 at 8:38 am #818851
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    CXR94Di2

    I trained to spin more, which
    I trained to spin more, which doesn’t take too long to adapt. I could manage 95-100 rpm on long rides but struggled to keep up with the pack. I decided to lower my cadence as an experiment, pushing a bigger gear, which for me feels more natural. My speed jumped up. So now I spin around 80 – 85 rpm. I still spin 80+rpm uphills.

    Find what is natural for you while giving you the maximum speed over distance.

    October 24, 2014 at 5:43 pm #818849
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    roadie69

    I think that my bike fit is
    I think that my bike fit is pretty good. I ride a 56.6 top tube (I’m just a smidge under 6 foot) ride a 172.5 crank. Always have. And have quite long limbs, so have the saddle reasonably high. I was in the bike trade 10 years, so am confident that my position etc is resonable, I just can’t get my legs to spin within getting lactic acid build up is all.

    October 24, 2014 at 5:36 pm #818847
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    roadie69

    Him thanks for the advice, in
    Him thanks for the advice, in particularly the spelling – who knew! I used to ride single speed a lot (off road) so maybe rather than help, it made things worst, as most of the time you are grinding.

    The main concern for me is efficiency, as I’m planning a long ride(race) and I’ve read the spinning realies on fat burning for energy, rather than glycogen. Although that didn’t stop people back in the ebay travelling massive distances each day in races, so I’m wondering how apparent the difference actually is?

    October 24, 2014 at 12:18 pm #818845
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    chokofingrz

    The best advice I can give is
    The best advice I can give is forget about your cadence number, banish the idea from your mind and your computer screen. Ride in a gear that feels comfortable, and when going uphill, always change down a gear sooner rather than later. Your legs will learn the benefits without your brain needing to be involved.

    October 24, 2014 at 11:41 am #818843
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    KirinChris

    The advice above is all good
    The advice above is all good but the critical question is whether it is worth doing?

    There is no inherent reason for you to spin at higher cadence. There are many reasons people do spin – different load, avoiding cramps, easier on knees etc.

    But if none of these apply to you and you’re perfectly happy as you are then I would not feel compelled to spin.

    Unless you’re getting left behind on climbs because you are grinding along, or having knee problems or some other issue, then I’d leave it.

    October 24, 2014 at 10:42 am #818841
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    glynr36

    You’re a grinder, relying on
    You’re a grinder, relying on leg strength to get power out, not spinning.
    The reason you feel it more in your legs when you try to spin is that it places more demand on your Cardio vascular system, not your muscular system.

    It’s a case of training to adapt to spinning, won’t happen over night and takes some work to do.

    All the other things people have mentioned are true, but they’re secondary to the fact physiologically spinning places different stresses on the body to grinding,

    October 24, 2014 at 10:31 am #818839
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    notfastenough

    Welcome to the forum.
    Welcome to the forum. Mobydick has a good point, bike sizing/position might well be the issue.

    We can’t see what you look like on a bike, but is your upper body moving much, your shoulders swaying for example? If you lack stability/strength in your core, then higher cadence will cause you to ‘bounce’ on the saddle, and this may make you fatigue sooner.

    October 24, 2014 at 10:01 am #818837
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    MKultra

    thereverent wrote:I use to

    thereverent wrote:
    I use to have a similar problem.
    I worked on a spin bike at lunchtimes doing set of 3mins at 90rpm, 2 mins at 100rpm, 1 min at 110rm, 30 Sec at 120 rpm then back to the begining.

    Riding a single speed bike can help as the only way you can go faster is to pedal faster.

    A fixed sprocket will work better in that respect as if you want to go faster you have no choice but to spin faster as you can not freewheel.

    October 24, 2014 at 9:51 am #818835
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    thereverent

    I use to have a similar
    I use to have a similar problem.
    I worked on a spin bike at lunchtimes doing set of 3mins at 90rpm, 2 mins at 100rpm, 1 min at 110rm, 30 Sec at 120 rpm then back to the begining.

    Riding a single speed bike can help as the only way you can go faster is to pedal faster.

    October 24, 2014 at 9:39 am #818833
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    MKultra

    Get a fixed for winter.
    42X16
    Get a fixed for winter.

    42X16 will do just fine.

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