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Colin Peyresourde.
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October 15, 2014 at 3:22 pm #22589
notfastenough
Hey folks, I’m looking to increase my power-to-weight in the gym over the winter. I’d like to do strength work in the gym on Saturday mornings, but with minimal DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) the next day, in order to not feel awful on the Sunday club run. I can supplement with home exercises on other days, provided I know what to do.
Do you think this is possible, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it? Can anyone provide thoughts on what exercises, intensity etc would suit?
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That’s quite interesting from
That’s quite interesting from a pure weightlifting perspective. I’m unsure if we’re thinking of ‘strength’ differently though. To clarify, I want to be a better bike rider – on hilly peak district and flattish Cheshire courses of around 60 miles each, I want to achieve higher average speeds, be faster on the long climbs and to regain my top end speed for pulling the group along quickly on the flat.So, my week for the winter looks as follows:
Monday – commute, easy spin
Tuesday – commute, repeated short hard efforts (circa 30-60 seconds each)
Wednesday – rest
Thursday – 2 hour ride in the morning, 1 hour weights and core in the evening
Friday – rest
Saturday – Wattbike* session followed by weights and core
Sunday – club run, circa 4 hours/100km-ish*Every 12 weeks I intend to record my FTP :& , which will be the key metric for measuring my overall improvement. Other weeks will be split between climbing, intervals and technique sessions.
So from what I can see (happy to be corrected!), the gym work looks like:
Squats – 3 x 20
Deadlifts – 3 x 20
Curls – 3 x 20
Calf raises 3 x 20Plus I can use a bunch of the upper body kit to avoid looking like popeye-legs/oliveoil-arms.
CXR94Di2
Re squats I personally do
Re squats I personally do front squats and concentrate on form over high weight for the front squat. I also invested in a squat frame, just in case!sergius
Interesting stuff there, do
Interesting stuff there, do you reckon it’s fair to say there’s a bit of a dichotomy between the powerlifting and the cycling?When I look around at my gym, there are a load of huge, strong guys who clearly lift a lot more than I do – but I’d also say I barely recall ever seeing any of them doing any cardio training (and for that matter very little core training beyond lower back strength training, can’t remember what its called – kind of like a dead-lift but keeping your legs locked in a slightly bent position).
I reckon (though have never tried I admit) that I’d easily drop most of them on a bike, just like I can’t lift close to the amounts they can.
I’m interested in that rule of thumb as well. Do you mean squatting with 1.5 times bodyweight on the bar, or yourself + half your body weight? The thought of putting 95+ kg on the bar for a squat is rather scary.
fustuarium
I think as a powerlifter who
I think as a powerlifter who does a bit of riding I’ll chip in as some of the comments seem pretty whacky to me. I normally keep quiet on this as weights and cycling seem a poisonous topic but here’s my perspective from under the bar.Rep and set choice is determined by the adaptation you are trying to achieve. You say ‘strength’ so it’s low reps of around 3 to 5 (high force production with no endurance element) and moderate sets of 3-5 (giving enough stress to drive adaptation). So the fella at the gym sounds like he knows his stuff. Bonus!
Bodyweight might work for a bit but not long term. Heck, ANY stress makes a novice adapt. Some methods are just more effective than others. You need to progressively overload to drive an adaptation. That’s the weight on the bar. If you are serious, each session up the weight. Every one. You should be able to do 5kg lower body and 2.5kg upper each session for a few months if you are a novice. If you don’t do that, at least progress every session. And log it. Know what you are going to do in four weeks time and commit to it.
Exercise selection. As said, compound exercises. Twice a week is very little in lifting terms but it can be made to work. Think of a Heavy – Medium split. So perhaps (A) Squat, Deadlift, Bench (B) Squat (80-90% of Monday), Press, ChinsRows. Or you could do another squat set or two on the Monday to make it the ‘heavyvolume’ session. Personally, unless you get coaching, I’d be very cautious of squats. Most technique for novices is horrific. Deadlift is easy to learn, but squatting well is more technical. Maybe a session with that gym coach? Don’t put in some volume of deadlifts instead of squats as they’re tough too recover from. Try to volume squat and deadlift in same session as lower back takes quite a while to recover between sessions.
Whether you gain weight of not is up to you and your diet. Its easier to get strong when you are running a calorie surplus based upon the right nutritional macros. Strength in and of itself doesn’t make you heavy. Otherwise competitive weight classes would be won by the heaviest person in them.
The definition of a novice is someone who adapts from one session to the next, rather than and intermediate who is one week to the next, and elite where it is one cycle to the next. That said, you will feel mashed for the first month or so. Food and sleep are your friends here. DOMs, when using reps in the strength or power range, shouldn’t be a long term issue. Just feeling dog tired and ground down will be what might happen. When that happens, take a light week (80% weight, with couple of sets), and then pick it up again.
A general rule of thumb for moving from being a novice is a squat and deadlift 1.5 times bodyweight. Should be easily achievable over the coming short days. Best of luck.
Well initially I’m looking to
Well initially I’m looking to be further up the group on long climbs, and taking longer turns on the front on the fast run home or on the chaingang. If I feel up to racing, then I’ll work on explosive power in the spring.@J90 – suppose I didn’t research it really, my dad showed me how to use the gym/weights kit that he bought, but this was before the internet, and I was just getting fit for joining the forces.
Family routines etc mean that I’m in the gym anyway, so I’ll make the most of it, and supplement with bodyweight exercises at home.
Thanks all.
s_lim
notfastenough wrote:One of
notfastenough wrote:One of the instructors in the gym was talking about 5 reps at a weight where I cannot manage a 6th rep. Wouldn’t that result in gaining weight as well though? Any suggestions for reps/sets?@J90 – sorry, what are compound exercises?
5 reps is part of maximal strength training, ideally looking to build up to a 1 rep max (the optimum weight you can lift at one time). Ideally doing 3-5 sets with 5 reps. This is good for endurance training too, as it doesn’t work on bulking out your muscles.
Compound lifts: deadlifts, squats, benchpress, military press, aka the big 4.
daddyELVIS
Agreed on the bodyweight
Agreed on the bodyweight exercises too – plus no gym fees to pay!However, what is best for you depends on what you mean by “power”. If you mean explosive power, then you may need to use weights – eg squats using a weight that allows 8 – 10 reps, slow down and ‘explode’ up. (BUT – poor form can result in injury and stiffness in other areas!). Combine this with a session on the bike on another day in the week doing sprints or full-gas hill repeats on a short incline, and you should see good gains in explosive power.
Or, are you looking for gains in your average power / weight ratio over longer durations on a ride – e.g. longer climbs, etc? If this is what you mean, then bodyweight exercises should be sufficient, as you will need to push out more reps…and your biggest initial improvement will come from gains in muscle stamina. I personally target this area with ‘burpees’ – I time how quickly I can complete 100 burpees, including rests, and each week I try to better my previous time.
But, the best training for riding a bike is riding a bike – so always tailor your gym training to the specific areas you are trying to improve on the bike, and then include one session per week on the bike that also targets that particular area – eg hill repeats, sprints, time trialling, etc.
At first you don’t need
At first you don’t need weights, your own body weight will be sufficient. 3 or 4 basic compound exercisessquats 5-10 repetitions 5 sets
Push ups 10 reps 5 sets
Plank hold for 1 minute then repeat
Lunges 10 reps 5 sets per leg
That will keep you going for a few weeks. When you find it easy progress to using weights
MuddyGoose
I find that when showering
I find that when showering down, turning the shower down to cold and directing that at my legs helps prevent them from ‘complaining’ so much the following day. Like the ice bath therapy that top athletes use but without the facilities!J90
You should know what compound
You should know what compound exercises are if you used to lift! They’ve been around for decades. They’re multi-joint movements which work several muscles or groups of muscles at the same time e.g. Squats, Deadlifts, etc. Google it and you’ll see what the advantages are over isolation exercises, there’s a lot.Also, too many people think that if you lift weights for a couple of months you’ll end up looking like a bodybuilder….no, it takes a lot more than that and for a good length of time. If you want to build muscle you have to have a calorie surplus, if you want to lose fat you need a calorie deficit. You can do compound exercises with a deficit but you won’t put on a lot of mass at all, it will burn a lot of calories and is actually good cardio depending on the weight you use. There’s a lot of people who despise running and lift instead, they’re usually strong athletes.
If you want to bulk
If you want to bulk up/increase strength:– Eat tons
– Focus on specific muscle groups per session
– Warm up
– Sets to failure with heavy weights (i.e. you can’t do more than 5-8 repsif you want to tone up:
– Eat normally
– Warm up
– Sets with weights you can do at least 12 reps with, generally more sets of higher repsFor me I tend to fall somewhere between the two, I’ve no interest in bulking up, but nor do I need to tone up (last time I was checked I was ~7% body fat). My workouts tend to be a happy medium of heavier weights + high rep sets. I like “core” exercises a lot, so a lot of push-ups, pulls-ups etc. rather than just pushing weights.
redmeat
I always thought you should
I always thought you should be doing high reps, low(ish) weight.Ok, slight change in routine.
Ok, slight change in routine. My mum has kindly offered to babysit one evening a week which provides an extra gym session without being too close to Sunday morning rides. So I’m going to use that for a leg weights session. I’ll have to supplement with further exercises at home.One of the instructors in the gym was talking about 5 reps at a weight where I cannot manage a 6th rep. Wouldn’t that result in gaining weight as well though? Any suggestions for reps/sets?
@J90 – sorry, what are compound exercises?
(I used to do loads of weight training as a teenager, but all the jargon has changed since then!)
Stick to compound exercises
Stick to compound exercises if you do start going.I am suffering with doms for
I am suffering with doms for the last two sessions I have done. I find a 20 mile eases the pain a little and I recover quicker -
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