Should good cyclists do more to stop bad cyclists

pakennedy wrote:As things

pakennedy wrote:

As things calmed down an elderly gent rode up the road on an ancient dutch style bike with a huge stream of cars behind him. He wasn’t doing much more than 5mph. I shouted “There’s a nice safe cycle lane here” and was greeted with “F*** off”

Firstly, I’ve ended up on the road over a bridge when there was a cycle lane alongside but no way to get off the road without causing even more disruption. That was because the entrance to the cycle lane was very badly signposted and left the road on the corner of a traffic-lit T junction. If you had shouted that to me then, you might have gotten similar abuse because I was stressed enough about the situation I was in.

Secondly, we’ve now got even pedestrians shouting at bikes to get off the road??? Blooming heck, what’s the world coming to?

GoingRoundInCycles wrote:The

GoingRoundInCycles wrote:

The point is, unlike the bald community, the bespectacled community etc in FluffyKitten’s poor analogy, the cycling community is campaigning for the current status quo to change. We want better, safer, greener, more sustainable urban and rural environments so it does matter how we as a community are perceived.

We as a minority community cannot expect to be taken seriously when we campaign for resources to be spent on make cycling safer while we are perceived as dangerous louts who have no respect for the rule of law. These lawless gits are forcing us to fight with one hand tied behind our backs.

Of course it isn’t fair that the cycling community gets condemned as a whole for the actions of a nasty, ignorant minority but you know what, life isn’t fair. People do stereotype others whether we like it or not.

So …. …. maybe you should also consider the indirect impact of law breaking cyclists on how you are perceived as a cyclist and how that might effect the future of cycling in this country and your personal safety in the present day?

Eloquent, well-set out reasoning. But bollocks. Dangerous bollocks.

The anti-social behaviour of drivers is equally bad and much more dangerous, speeding, not indicating, parking on pavements, parking on double yellow lines, running red lights etc. etc. But the pro-car lobby is not trying to get its own house in order.

We are being stereotyped and pandering to those stereotypes reinforces them. There is a minority that hates cycling and in whose eyes we can do no right. It’s not the red light jumping, the riding two abreast, the going too slow, the going too fast, the riding on the pavement, the riding on the road, the wearing lycra, the wearing normal clothes, the wearing helmets or the not wearing helmets that antagonises them. We’re just the group that it is socially acceptable to pick on, so hateful people direct their hatred at us. It used to be socially acceptable to pick on many other minorities. Now it’s us. Should gays have been less promiscuous, less camp, in order to get equal rights? Should black people have done something about the high crime rate among black youths, or stopped wearing those silly woolly hats, in order to ‘be taken seriously’? Should football fans have done something about hooliganism, stopped shaking those silly rattles, if they wanted safer stadia?

There is no house to get in order. There is no ‘community’. Most people on bikes are just people on bikes. We’re just people being unfairly stereotyped by a transport choice and that stereotype legitimises the same type of hatred that jews, gays, blacks, asians, football supporters and birdspotters have suffered because of similar stereotypes. Don’t reinforce that stereotype by making us out to be one big anti-social family. Challenge it by pointing out that we are individuals united only by a choice of transport or a choice of sport.

Cycle campaigning must not represent cyclists. It must promote cycling.

SideBurn wrote:Maybe there

SideBurn wrote:

Maybe there should be an organisation that has powers to do something about this problem? Maybe they could give these miscreants some sort of financial penalty? Maybe these financial penalties could apply to all road users? Maybe in extreme cases these people could suffer greater penalties?
The fact is people treat the road like a playground because they know they can get away with it. In fact I see more discipline and self-restraint in a playground, so maybe I am being harsh on the children here.
I feel no responsibility for other riders stupidity, just as I feel no responsibility for other 4×4 users or other white van users, but mpv users are the worst drivers…. and I have one of them as well….
If I felt the need to educate my fellow users of whatever machine I am in today I would never get anywhere… I agree in principle with what you say, but in practice ~X(

Also, everyone saying that drivers don’t tell other drivers off, I’ve thought about this a bit and when driving my car, I do find myself beeping idiot drivers, flashing those without lights on, flashing middle lane drivers, shaking my finger at people using their phones. Maybe that’s just me but I think there is some kind of collective responsibility among most road users, the difference with cyclists seems to be that others hold us all in the same regard whereas each motorist seems to be viewed as an individual.

Maybe there should be an
Maybe there should be an organisation that has powers to do something about this problem? Maybe they could give these miscreants some sort of financial penalty? Maybe these financial penalties could apply to all road users? Maybe in extreme cases these people could suffer greater penalties?
The fact is people treat the road like a playground because they know they can get away with it. In fact I see more discipline and self-restraint in a playground, so maybe I am being harsh on the children here.
I feel no responsibility for other riders stupidity, just as I feel no responsibility for other 4×4 users or other white van users, but mpv users are the worst drivers…. and I have one of them as well….
If I felt the need to educate my fellow users of whatever machine I am in today I would never get anywhere… I agree in principle with what you say, but in practice ~X(

GoingRoundInCycles wrote:the

GoingRoundInCycles wrote:

the cycling community is campaigning for the current status quo to change. We want better, safer, greener, more sustainable urban and rural environments so it does matter how we as a community are perceived.

What? Every single person who ever uses a bike is campaigning and wants those things? I don’t think so.

Cyclists might share some common interests, just as black people share some common interests (in not wanting to be subject to racism) but that doesn’t make them a single-minded community that all form one big collectively-responsible team, or that all of them are even concious of having those interests.

I know some people in majority groups think like that, that minorities have to ‘prove’ themselves worthy of decent treatment, as some sort of collective group, but I see no reason to go along with that notion. Doing so simply reinforces it, and don’t believe will achieve anything.

I will, though, continue to snarl at the pavement racers (as long as they don’t look as if they have a knife). But that’s nothing to do with being a member of some mythical self-policing ‘community’, its because they are bloody annoying.