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Scoob_84.
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February 11, 2014 at 12:24 pm #20671
I’m a regular cycle commuter in London and like everyone else, I witness bad, inconsiderate and sometimes dangerous cycling of others on a regular basis. Typical examples such as cycling through red lights, dangerous manoeuvres, not generally looking before turning and cycling fast down pedestrianised areas. I’m talking about 5% of cyclists here who out and out think they’re above the rules of the road or just don’t care for them, not the other 95% who cycle respectfully with due care and attention like i imagine probably most people who venture on this website do.
As we all know, rightly or wrongly the 5% fuel the negative and misconstrued views towards cycling .
Is it time the responsible cyclists stood up to the bad cyclists? Actually tell them what they’re doing is detrimental for the rest of us. I know its not our responsibility to do this, but i see these morons flying through red lights and pedestrian crossings and get away with it. Maybe if the other cyclists who witness this actually tell them its not cool or call them a “red light dodging w******r” then maybe some of them would stop and help pave way for better cycling/car relations.
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surly_by_name wrote:Who the
surly_by_name wrote:Who the hell are you (am I) to decide who/what is “good” and “bad”?The reason I said 5% of bad cyclists in the original post was to remove any ambiguity over whether the cyclists actions we talking about here were bad (as in its blatantly bloody obvious to all) or just a minor blip or lapse of concentration by an otherwise good cyclist.
For the record, i don’t go round abusing cyclists in case this all reads like that. I started this thread because I’ve witnessed terrible cycling on numerous occasions and have done nothing about it.
surly_by_name
Who the hell are you (am to
Who the hell are you (am I) to decide who/what is “good” and “bad”?arfa
my usual response to the “you
my usual response to the “you f’ing cyclists” is to point to the nearest car and ask if the abuser knows him. usual response runs along the lines of “course I f’n don’t” which invites the response as to why the f@*k do you think I know the offending cyclist ?
Trouble is though, it is an uphill battle educating the ignorant, especially when they take pride in it….northstar
Like a lead balloon I suspect
Like a lead balloon I suspect : D (from previous experience too)
Stumps
northstar wrote:’you f*****g
northstar wrote:’you f*****g motorists are all the same, you think the law doesn’t apply to you’.Well said, although i dont know how well it would go down 😀
‘you f*****g motorists are
‘you f*****g motorists are all the same, you think the law doesn’t apply to you’.
Kapelmuur
Last week I was following a
Last week I was following a rider towards a traffic light controlled crossroads where the lights were red.The rider hopped onto the pavement and carried on left through the red light. I needed to go straight on and stopped in the ‘box’, whereupon a driver behind me wound down his window and shouted ‘you f*****g cyclists are all the same, you think the law doesn’t apply to you’.
I still haven’t thought of a suitable response.
a.jumper wrote:Scoob_84
a.jumper wrote:Scoob_84 wrote:a.jumper wrote:Ah right, the vigilante harassment of other riders is an attempt to reproach your younger self. Now I understand! But would you really have changed your ways, or would you have responded with abuse or worse?
Why jump to extremes??? Is it too difficult for you envisage some middle ground between “Vigilante harassment” and dishing out “abuse” to just turning the other way and pretending you saw nothing??
😆 Earlier, you jumped to the other extreme, accusing Gkam84 of condoning the bad behaviour just because he didn’t share your love of playing the policeman, plus you described how you turned vigilante and gave chase:
Scoob_84 wrote:As soon as the lights turn green I catch up with the lad and tell him “that’s not cool, you give the rest of us a bad name etc etc”.
But I think vigilante harassment is a more accurate description of your behaviour than condoning lawbreaking was of Gkam84’s.So speaking your mind is vigilantism harassment? Lets not forget the guy approaching the red light with stationary traffic chose to cycle onto the pavement, ride past the stationary cars and cyclists then rejoin the road at the same spot as an elderly lady crossing the road.
I basically did what you just did in your last post towards me. I was going to over take the feller anyway, so why not speak my mind. It’s perfectly acceptable for you to log into an online forum and speak your mind with me about something we disagree on, but vigilantism harassment for me in speak my mind to this prat in the real world?
Doing nothing and saying nothing after witnessing the incident would be condoning it in my eyes and this happens far too often “sorry little old lady, not my problem”…. Running to the police is hardly a viable option either before someone suggests this as a course of action.
GoingRoundInCycles
Malaconotus wrote:The
Malaconotus wrote:The anti-social behaviour of drivers is equally bad and much more dangerous, speeding, not indicating, parking on pavements, parking on double yellow lines, running red lights etc. etc. But the pro-car lobby is not trying to get its own house in order.Off topic. The OP’s article is clearly about what cyclists can do about other cyclists showing us up. Educating car drivers is a separate issue that I would happily debate elsewhere.
Malaconotus wrote:We are being stereotyped and pandering to those stereotypes reinforces them.Who here is ‘pandering’ to those stereotypes? I acknowledge that those stereotypes exist and affect me as a cyclist.
That isn’t ‘pandering’. That is just accepting that this is the reality, I don’t like it and I would like to do what I can to help eradicate this stereotype.
Just complaining that the stereotype is unfair will achieve what exactly?
There is a minority that hates cycling and in whose eyes we can do no right. It’s not the red light jumping, the riding two abreast, the going too slow, the going too fast, the riding on the pavement, the riding on the road, the wearing lycra, the wearing normal clothes, the wearing helmets or the not wearing helmets that antagonises them.Agreed. There are and will always be extremists and there is not a lot you can do about them. I think it is better that we focus our energies on improving relations with the majority of road users who don’t hate cyclist and cyling per se but are more and more pissed off with the blatant disregard for the law that they witness every day from a small, ignorant, self-centred minority.
We’re just the group that it is socially acceptable to pick on, so hateful people direct their hatred at us.If so, that needs to change. The situation won’t change by itself. We have to change it.
It used to be socially acceptable to pick on many other minorities. Now it’s us. Should gays have been less promiscuous, less camp, in order to get equal rights?Er .. what? Being ‘camp’ and/or ‘promiscuous’ can be compared to behaving as if you can break the law with impunity? We aren’t talking about matters of taste or lifestyle here. The OP is talking about cyclists breaking the law and/or riding antisocially in a way that puts other road users at risk. What does what adults choose to do with each other in privacy have to do with this issue? I fail to see the connection.
Should black people have done something about the high crime rate among black youths, or stopped wearing those silly woolly hats, in order to ‘be taken seriously’?Leaving aside the fashion issues which are again purely a matter of taste, you raise an interesting point. Fast forward to 21st Century and in the wake of terrorist atrocities it is very common these days to hear people saying things like “The muslim community should be doing a lot more to tackle the rise of Jihadism and radicalisation of young muslims”.
I am pretty certain that the vast majority of muslims are happy to live in a tolerant multicultural society where they are free to practise their faith and accept the rights of others to practice theirs freely too. I am pretty sure that the majority are acutely embarrassed and possibly at times feel shamed by the obnoxious behaviour of maniac thugs carrying out atrocious acts supposedly in their name.
Now imagine that you are a member of the muslim community and feel that you are being unfairly stereotyped due to an ignorant embarrassing tiny minority whose daily behaviour makes life much harder than it really needs to be … what would you do to try and change the situation?
Nothing. Just hope that the issues will go away by themselves and feel sorry for yourself and become more and more resentful in the meantime?
Is that a realistic strategy for bringing about change?
Or maybe starting something like this:
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/about/
and/or building bridges to the wider community like this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552
might be more effective?
There is no house to get in order. There is no ‘community’.There are many communities built around cycling. They all have voluntary membership. If you feel that these issues don’t concern you:
- Encouraging more people to regard cycling as a viable transport option and not (just) a sport
- Improving transport infrastructure to make cycling safer and less stressful, especially for beginners
- Obtaining better justice from the legal system if I am unfortunate enough to become a victim of other negligent road users
then you obviously don’t feel a part of the community for whom these issues are very important, but that doesn’t mean that the community does not exist.
We’re just people being unfairly stereotyped by a transport choice and that stereotype legitimises the same type of hatred that jews, gays, blacks, asians, football supporters and birdspotters have suffered because of similar stereotypes.You are missing the point that these unfair, unjust stereotypes didn’t just wither away by themselves. It took concerted campaigning action from these groups to get their voice heard by the public and their message listened to. Banana throwing and monkey noises didn’t disappear from the terraces by magic. It took positive action to start organisations like Kick it Out that could pressurise the clubs into doing more.
Similarly groups like Stonewall have done similar things to build bridges and educate to improve the standing of the gay community.
You have to build momentum to change public opinion. Sitting on your arse whining that the stereotype that you have been given isn’t fair won’t get you very far, in my opinion.
a.jumper
Scoob_84 wrote:a.jumper
Scoob_84 wrote:a.jumper wrote:Ah right, the vigilante harassment of other riders is an attempt to reproach your younger self. Now I understand! But would you really have changed your ways, or would you have responded with abuse or worse?
Why jump to extremes??? Is it too difficult for you envisage some middle ground between “Vigilante harassment” and dishing out “abuse” to just turning the other way and pretending you saw nothing??
😆 Earlier, you jumped to the other extreme, accusing Gkam84 of condoning the bad behaviour just because he didn’t share your love of playing the policeman, plus you described how you turned vigilante and gave chase:
Scoob_84 wrote:As soon as the lights turn green I catch up with the lad and tell him “that’s not cool, you give the rest of us a bad name etc etc”.
But I think vigilante harassment is a more accurate description of your behaviour than condoning lawbreaking was of Gkam84’s.Paul_C
pakennedy wrote:
A fewpakennedy wrote:
A few minutes later a couple of guys on very nice looking road bikes shot past on the cycle lane (at that speed I’d expected them to be on the road but they slowed as they passed pedestrians so good on you even if your Strava times were knackered).They won’t have any Strava achievements to post there if you flag that section.
a.jumper wrote:Scoob_84
a.jumper wrote:Scoob_84 wrote:We don’t have a horn to toot, so we’re only left with giving a bit of verbal (bells don’t really count)…and for way too long I’ve just turned a blind eye to bad/dangerous cycling unless it impacts me.
If it would stop you verbally assaulting other road users, why don’t you get a horn to toot? http://www.airzound.co.uk/ and I think there is another make whose name I forget.
Scoob_84 wrote:When I first started commuting in London around 6 years ago, I used to jump red lights, weave dangerously through traffic, cycle with my headphones on and ride around at night with poor lighting – i thought i was invisible. I didn’t have a clue, but had a more seasoned rider actually pointed this out the errors of my ways I probably would have changed them sooner.
Ah right, the vigilante harassment of other riders is an attempt to reproach your younger self. Now I understand! But would you really have changed your ways, or would you have responded with abuse or worse?:)) :)) :))
Why jump to extremes??? Is it too difficult for you envisage some middle ground between “Vigilante harassment” and dishing out “abuse” to just turning the other way and pretending you saw nothing??
Yes i wear lycra on my commutes, but that’s about as close as i get with the vigilante super hero stuff =))
Scoob_84 wrote:We don’t have
Scoob_84 wrote:We don’t have a horn to toot, so we’re only left with giving a bit of verbal (bells don’t really count)…and for way too long I’ve just turned a blind eye to bad/dangerous cycling unless it impacts me.
If it would stop you verbally assaulting other road users, why don’t you get a horn to toot? http://www.airzound.co.uk/ and I think there is another make whose name I forget.
Scoob_84 wrote:When I first started commuting in London around 6 years ago, I used to jump red lights, weave dangerously through traffic, cycle with my headphones on and ride around at night with poor lighting – i thought i was invisible. I didn’t have a clue, but had a more seasoned rider actually pointed this out the errors of my ways I probably would have changed them sooner.
Ah right, the vigilante harassment of other riders is an attempt to reproach your younger self. Now I understand! But would you really have changed your ways, or would you have responded with abuse or worse?Quote:I shouted “There’s a
I shouted “There’s a nice safe cycle lane here” and was greeted with “F*** off”Who are you to tell people where to ride their bike? Oh wait, you aren’t and no one can, he can ride where he likes and will have his reasons.
A reminder when you feel the need to act mr policeman, one day someone might do more than shout “fuck off” back at you, i hope for your sake they do not.
Would you shout it at a younger male (or even female rider) I doubt it no ; )
In summary, keep your opinions to yourself no matter how well meaning you are (and yes i am 100% aware of the irony of this so save yourself (or anyone) telling me ; ).
badback wrote:Look at from
badback wrote:Look at from another angle if you were in your car and saw someone driving like an idiot and had a word with them what do you think the reaction would be.Questioning someone’s motoring skills is like questioning their bedroom skills – not wise at the best of times.
I think it is better left to sites like this and the road safety organisations to ‘educate’ people. Unless you like picking a fight.
If your driving along and you see a car pull out in front of you without looking or driving along at night with no lights on, you toot your horn at them. You don’t get the police or turn a blind eye and concede that some road safety campaign message will eventually get to this driver.
I’ve also read a lot of grumbling on this website relating to bad driving or drivers breaking the law for minor offences, yet we don’t do the same for cyclists (or citizens riding bikes for those offended by the collective term cyclists). Yes bad car driving is more capable of killing others than bad cycling, but that shouldn’t be the point, it makes a mockery of the rules of the road.
We don’t have a horn to toot, so we’re only left with giving a bit of verbal (bells don’t really count)…and for way too long I’ve just turned a blind eye to bad/dangerous cycling unless it impacts me.
When I first started commuting in London around 6 years ago, I used to jump red lights, weave dangerously through traffic, cycle with my headphones on and ride around at night with poor lighting – i thought i was invisible. I didn’t have a clue, but had a more seasoned rider actually pointed this out the errors of my ways I probably would have changed them sooner.
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