[Cycloid]

This week we were treated to the spectacle of an EV driver, who I suspect has a fairly low IQ, telling us that cyclists should pay road tax.

As cyclists we are entitled to ask the reverse question – Should drivers pay Road Tax?

With the move away from hydrocarbon to electric powered vehicles fewer drivers are paying VED and the Chancellor is reaping a smaller revenue from the motoring population. The first criticism of motorists towards cyclists is the Free Rider Charge, “They don’t pay for using the roads”. We now have the same situation with motorists, an increasing proportion of drivers are not contributing fairly towards the roads which they use.

The solution could be simple – bring back Road Tax.

All drivers will pay VED on a sliding down to zero, along with Road Tax. Clearly, reading the Road CC blog, there is a lot of nostalgia amongst motorists for this much loved tax, and it would welcomed with open arms as a fair solution to the problem.

The Road Tax component could be earmarked for road improvements, as the recent hike in NICs is earmarked for NHS catchup. Remember not to talk about “Road Maintenance” in this context, our roads are not fit for purpose and getting worse. Maintenance implies keeping the Status Quo.

When a drivers receive a Road Tax bill they will be reminded that it does not give them any special rights to use the roads and that they must respect the vulnerable road user hierarchy.

Job done – Simples!

Topic

[nickprior]

There’s no need for much new

There’s no need for much new technology to solve this. We already have a mechanism for checking vehicles on an annual basis – MOT

So, every vehicle will need to be covered by an annual voucher. You go to your MOT centre (or go online) and pay for a voucher for the year. The price might vary by predicted miles, power unit, vehicle weight/axles, and possibly location of keeper’s address (for those rural drivers whose mileages are necessarily higher)

The following year, you go back to the MOT Centre who validate your year’s mileage and sell you a top up voucher for excess miles, and a further voucher for the next year.

Opportunities for drive-thru mileage checking booths. We could give it to Capita to run!  (Joke already…)

Eventually car makers will interface the odometer with the billing system so the whole thing could be done online. No need to know where people have been driving in detail. Call it Motorised Vehicle Duty, job’s a good’un!

[hawkinspeter]

Rich_cb wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

Personally I think we’ll have widespread driverless taxi services within a decade so charging tax per mile will become far easier.

Taxing per mile gets trickier when there’s still old cars knocking around. Maybe the easiest way is to put up ANPR cameras on most roads – it’s exactly the kind of surveillance tech that’ll be some politician’s wet dream.

[mdavidford]

I think you’ve rather missed

I think you’ve rather missed the point that the whole challenge arises from a transition to electric vehicles, where fuel, as such, goes away, and with it the whole basis of our existing tax system. Adding a few pence to the tax on fuel won’t have much effect if no-one’s using any to start with.

[Rich_cb]

Personally I think we’ll have
Personally I think we’ll have widespread driverless taxi services within a decade so charging tax per mile will become far easier.

[Rich_cb]

Interesting.
Interesting.

Still not sure it’s reliable enough to base taxation on but that could improve.

I’m sure the government will just go down the route of road charging or mileage charging as they are relatively simple to implement.

I think the smart charging points are simply for grid stability purposes and that will trump the desire to tax EV electricity.

[Jacobi]

There’s a simple solution to

There’s a simple solution to road tax. Do what other countries do and put a few pence on to the price of fuel then those who use the roads more pay more.

Having said that, we’ve lived with consecutive governments that see fuel as an easy way to extort money from an already overtaxed public with excise duty at 57.95p per litre and then 20% VAT on your forecourt cost.

[eburtthebike]

“Maintenance implies keeping

“Maintenance implies keeping the Status Quo.”

At least Rick Parfitt will be happy.

[mdavidford]

I’m not saying the proceeds

I’m not saying the proceeds should be used specifically to pay for the roads. I’m looking at it from a ‘what should we tax to discourage an anti-social behaviour [private vehicle use]?’ / ‘how can we fill a hole in the public finances left by declining fuel/vehicle duty?’ perspective.

I’m not a big fan of hypothecation in this instance, and would rather see the roads (and public transport) continue to be paid for out of general taxation, so that the budget can be based on what’s needed*, rather than what we happen to be able to raise through vehicle-related taxation.

[We’re talking ideal world, here – I wouldn’t suggest that what’s currently spent on public transport bears much relation to what’s needed.]

[chrisonabike]

But we can’t have that!  It

But we can’t have that!  It’ll be exploited by freeloaders!  It’ll deny people the incentive for them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

Always interested me how the different ideologies differentiate themselves on this one.  Times past one faction tended to ignore the problems with the wealthy (actually most governments do – there’s almost never a bad time to be wealthy) while another tended to ignore issues of “fairness” amongst the poor.

I was a bit shocked when Lord Bird came out as a conservative but I do think there’s something to the Big Issue’s “A hand up not a handout”.

[Anonymous]

Definitely needs to be a
Definitely needs to be a traffic jam tax ??

[ktache]

Communism!

Communism!

Next you will be calling for an effective social security safety net that prevents people from going hungry or cold…

 

[hawkinspeter]

Sriracha wrote:

[quote=Sriracha]They’ve been looking at pattern recognition to disaggregate electrical device consumption for quite a while, a quick Google will throw up loads of papers, eg https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Electric-vehicle-charging-load-filtering-by-power-Shaw-Nayak/27bc0b0722b7a90766eae7f36a8dd4f7651c8401 This one is more aimed at the lay person: https://blog.sense.com/how-sense-recognizes-the-electric-vehicle-in-your-driveway/ Meanwhile, you are correct in assuming HMG wants to know everything about your EV’s electricity consumption: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/18/section/15/enacted%5B/quote%5D

It seems easy enough to defeat detection of EV charging – just put an intermediate device in between the source and the EV. Something like a bunch of capacitors or even a flywheel could be used to flatten the ‘ramping up’ of charging.

[Hirsute]

Was a rubbish test (laughable

Was a rubbish test (laughably called the first ever real world comparable test). Let’s check the battery level by peering at some leds and hope I get the reading right.

How was 13 miles, 10 laps round a track a valid journey. Howabout a 50 or 100 mile trip. Did he even go at the same speeds ?

As to the bloke who seemed to be doing 2000 miles a year (35000 in 14 years). The answer is to give up your car as you clearly don’t need it.

 

[Bungle_52]

Wouldn’t it make more sense

Wouldn’t it make more sense to use parking charges to subsidise public transport to make it affordable for every one?

[hawkinspeter]

Sriracha wrote:

Sriracha wrote:

You might be right about the plug. But nobody I know with an EV uses a plug, because it is so slow. Pretty sure that with smart meters they will be able to recognise the usage signature of an EV on charge so all it needs is some work at the billing end to add the appropriate tax.

Where I work (or at least when I go to the office) has been using a plug and extension lead for charging the odd EV. I think they get away with it due to having a private car park and thus a cable trailing across the floor isn’t a problem.

[Author]

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