[Shades]

Commuting yesterday (Bristol Bath cycle path) doing a respectable 30km/h and (happened twice) suddenly a fairly basic hybrid bike overtook doing at least 35-40km/h.  Spotted the batteries so must have been de-restricted e-bikes which, according to an LBS, is pretty easy to do.  Would knock a massive amount of time off a 1hr5min commute, although with a reduction in the fitness benefit (wouldn’t count on Strava 😉 ).  An LBS also talked about a type of e-bike on the continent that goes above the limit 15mph but you need a special helmet and insurance; not legal in the UK (I think).

On the face of it, why not; better that than people sitting in cars, but if bike paths have de-restricted e-bikes ripping along you just know something’s going to kick-off.  Good on the road and reducing the speed differential.  Perhaps it’s all part of ‘electric’ taking over, but is a de-restricted e-bike just a slow version of an electric motorbike.  At the end of the day, they’re illegal, but whose going to stop them and with the drive for more cycle infrastructure/more people cycling, could this be an issue that plays in to the hands of the anti-cycling lobby?

Topic

[madcarew]

But I suspect you’d have
But I suspect you’d have little problem with those ‘not so fit and strong’ piloting a car at 70mph? It doesnt take much fitness or strength to ride an ebike. Those that crash are largely a danger to themselves. I think there are more than enough barriers to people using healthy and low-polluting transport so I think these should be made as easily available as possible. Any potential safety costs will be far outweighed by reduced health system burden. I do think there should be a 10 mph speed limit on shared paths

[Applecart]

Oh right so on downhills and

Oh right so on downhills and slipstreaming on a single carriageway – wow that’s pretty extreme! I’ve never been over 65kph (40mph) even on fairly steep downhills  as it doesn’t feel safe.

I reckon e-bikes could be safely derestricted to 30-35kph (~20mph) for on-road use. Beyond that level I wouldn’t want people who aren’t properly fit and strong in control of a bike going any faster. On the other hand, one has to account for the 1% of people who are clutzes and then build in a further 25% error margin – hence the current legislation (I am guessing). It would only take a few accidents to bugger it up for everyone else at a higher limit.

madcarew wrote:

Applecart wrote:

madcarew wrote:

I don’t think there’s any need for a restriction on the ebikes. I regularly pass 50 mph on my bicycle under my power and that of gravity  and occasionally 60 mph on the flat. I’m regularly over 30 mph under my own steam. An ebike is simply someone on a bike going at similar speeds as the rest of us attain, but for larger amounts of time.

 An elite, world champion sprint cyclist can peak at about 76kph for 5 seconds on the flat, which is 47mph. An elite track sprinter can hit 77kph for 200 metres. But you regularly hit 50mph (80kph) and occasionally 60mph (96kph) on the flat? I am guessing you are either from the planet Krypton or have got your metric and imperial mixed up mate.

No. 50 mph down hill (myp ower and gravity) and I have a little hobby of slipstreaming trucks (60mph on the flat)

[Bmblbzzz]

jollygoodvelo wrote:

On the continent there are faster pedelecs (“S-Pedelecs”) – as reviewed on the Road sister site a while back: https://road.cc/ebiketips/content/advice/advice/buying-and-riding-an-s-pedelec-in-the-uk-1637 

So there are various questions.  At the moment a legal pedelec must a) only provide assistance when the rider is pedalling (assisted walking modes excepted), b) only provide assistance up to 25kph, c) only provide a maximum of 250W assistance at any time.

In my view a) is the most important part.  If you’re not pedalling, it’s not an e-bike it’s an electric motorbike and you shouldn’t be on a ‘human-powered’ path.  I personally think that the 25kph is a little restrictive and 30 or 35 kph might still be OK, but given almost all cycle paths are shared space in this country it’s not that critical.  Likewise I don’t see any reason not to have a 350W or 500W ‘assistance’ while still keeping conditions a) and b) in place – yes, you’ll get to the limit faster, you might buzz up big hills without effort, but isn’t it the point that e-bikes help people choose not to use their cars and the better they do that, the better?

Fundamentally – common sense applies and enforcement should follow the harm.  You cause the accident, you are liable for the damages caused, whatever you’re riding.  I was nearly wiped out a couple of weeks back on that path by a mother coming the other swinging out without warning as she looked behind her at her kids; there are incompetents everywhere on foot, on bikes and in cars.

This makes sense but the trouble is, the people who genuinely benefit from ebikes – the disabled, elderly, or plain injured, who would otherwise be unable to cycle – often need some form of power when not pedalling in order to overcome those disabilities. For instance, some people have joint problems which mean they can pedal but not continuously. I know two riders of electric recumbent trikes who both have some form of throttle switch (it’s not a twist grip like a motorcycle throttle, it’s some sort of pressure-sensitive switch) without which neither would be able to cycle. They know it’s technically illegal and use it responsibly (neither has derestricted their machines and doubt if throttle power alone would take it far anyway). It can also be a safety factor on roads, allowing them to accelerate at normal-person cycling speed across junctions. Finally, it allows them to maneouvre an otherwise unwieldy recumbent trike (very difficult to push even for someone with no walking disabilities) through doors and so on. 

[madcarew]

Applecart wrote:

madcarew wrote:

I don’t think there’s any need for a restriction on the ebikes. I regularly pass 50 mph on my bicycle under my power and that of gravity  and occasionally 60 mph on the flat. I’m regularly over 30 mph under my own steam. An ebike is simply someone on a bike going at similar speeds as the rest of us attain, but for larger amounts of time.

 An elite, world champion sprint cyclist can peak at about 76kph for 5 seconds on the flat, which is 47mph. An elite track sprinter can hit 77kph for 200 metres. But you regularly hit 50mph (80kph) and occasionally 60mph (96kph) on the flat? I am guessing you are either from the planet Krypton or have got your metric and imperial mixed up mate.

No. 50 mph down hill (myp ower and gravity) and I have a little hobby of slipstreaming trucks (60mph on the flat)

[HairyPete]

As an e-bike rider I would

As an e-bike rider I would like to add my two Peneth!

Most of the negative comments I have read  allude to “Homemade” electric bikes where a donor bike, often with inadequate brakes and tyres, is “Hybridised” using a hub motor and battery pack easily and cheaply available on line, can be tinkered with, and is just about as unsafe as unsafe can be. 

My bikes, like the vast majority, were bought from a bicycle shop, don’t have  throttles so can’t move above a walking pace without input from the pedals, which also give the electric assistance that stops at 25kph (15.5mph,) and have hydraulic disc brakes that are more than adequate to stop them. I also have seen some of the YouTube vids showing mad max and his mates on homemade ebikes, but most of the crazy cycle videos, especially in London, are of conventional  bikes probably propelled by mad max’s not so distant analogue cousins, and as for using shared paths the inconsiderate idiots are all out there whatever they are riding, it’s not the bike, it’s the rider!

The idea that these bikes are restricted gives the wrong impression as they can go as fast as you can pedal them, and if I (70 year old) can pedal my e-road bike past this 15.5mph cut off, often up to 20mph for short distances, then a younger fitter person could make it go much faster quite legally!

Out in the real world 99% of roadies are riding at 20mph+ so pass me easily until we come to a hill which is where the e-bike is worth its money and allows an old man to think that maybe he is not so old after all, but I do have to content with derisive, sometimes abusive, comments from the “no pain no gain” brigade who seem to think that if you can’t ride a “proper” bike you shouldn’t be allowed to ride one at all. Another bonus is that I can ride out with my son without him having to stop and wait for me at the top of each rise.

With regards to fitness, the bike won’t move without effort from me and a two hour ride will give me a max HR in the mid 160’s and an average approaching 140 so anyone who thinks there is no effort involved or fitness gain is clearly misinformed. 

I started cycling to keep fit when I retired but found the hills I am surrounded by took away all the pleasure, but then I became part of the ebike revolution and I now cycle 2500 miles every year and hope to continue for many years to come!

[il sole]

Not sure how i feel about

Not sure how i feel about them being de-restricted, but they must be a hoot to ride!

Just the other week, i was turing onto a fav strava segment and knew i’d have a good tailwind. it’s about 2 miles long, a slight rise, then flat, then gentle 3-4% descent to a T junction on a main road. So my mate and i go for it – complete heads down, stem chewing effort, only for an old guy on an e-mountain bike to come serenly past us… we were doing around 22-25mph on the gentle rise, so i hunkered down even more and got on his wheel. (well, I tried to!). It took the entire length of the segment to catch him and pass him at 37mph – I honestly don’t think I could have gone any faster…didn’t get the KOM, but was 3rd fastest behind 2 pros, so i was pretty chuffed!

Anyway, when we then chatted with the guy on the e-bike he said it had 400W…and 100% assistance with no limits…imagine that on a proper road bike?? WOW!!!

[kev-s]

Im all for e-bikes that have

Im all for e-bikes that have to be pedalled but dont agree with the speed restriction

15.5mph is just too slow when most peoples average speed is around that, a 20mph max would be much better

You get idiots on e-bikes just like you get idiots on normal bikes, motorbikes, cars, mobility scooter users and even on foot (too busy looking at their phone)

I use 2 shared paths that are 3 and 4 miles long and i pass people on e-bikes, kids on bikes, older people on retro bikes, hybrid users and roadies, 9 times out of 10 its the roadies who ride like dicks, not bothering to slow down when passing children, not warning people as they zoom up from behind passing within an inch and shouting at people, weaving in and out and generally just being dicks

I know not all roadies are like that (im one) but the majority i see are

 

Some intresting facts in the link below

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688

[Applecart]

madcarew wrote:

I don’t think there’s any need for a restriction on the ebikes. I regularly pass 50 mph on my bicycle under my power and that of gravity  and occasionally 60 mph on the flat. I’m regularly over 30 mph under my own steam. An ebike is simply someone on a bike going at similar speeds as the rest of us attain, but for larger amounts of time.

 An elite, world champion sprint cyclist can peak at about 76kph for 5 seconds on the flat, which is 47mph. An elite track sprinter can hit 77kph for 200 metres. But you regularly hit 50mph (80kph) and occasionally 60mph (96kph) on the flat? I am guessing you are either from the planet Krypton or have got your metric and imperial mixed up mate.

[rogermerriman]

As some who commutes fairly

As some who commutes fairly slowly in, de restricted e-bikes, electric stateboards and the odd roadie all tend, to be going too fast for the bike path, and pass too close, even if there is space to pass wide.

 

e bikes do tend to have fairly terrible brakes, sometimes disconnected! This said all 3 are a mild annoyance my commute is largely off road so cars aren’t a concern for most part.

[HowardR]

Re: “This smacks of nimbyism
Re: “This smacks of nimbyism to me (Not in my back yard)”……For those of us with a particular type of access to our property could this be amended to: ‘nimbPism’…. Not In My Back Passage….(If Ginnel & Snicket are names for side passages what are the name(s) for rear access? – no sniggering at the back)

[madcarew]

This smacks of nimbyism to me

This smacks of nimbyism to me (Not in my back yard)

I don’t think there’s any need for a restriction on the ebikes. I regularly pass 50 mph on my bicycle under my power and that of gravity  and occasionally 60 mph on the flat. I’m regularly over 30 mph under my own steam. An ebike is simply someone on a bike going at similar speeds as the rest of us attain, but for larger amounts of time. The likely damage to them and others in the event of an off is pretty much the same as for a bike. I certainly don’t want registration, licence plates etc on my bike just because I go faster for longer than other people.

I absolutely think that there should be a 10 mph speed limit on shared use paths. I think it is dangerous to mix 2 (or more) modes of traffic which might have a 10x average speed differential.  Pavement for < 10 mph, Road for > 10 mph. 

[LastBoyScout]

Out today in the car and

Out today in the car and passed someone on a country road – no pavements – on an electric scooter.

Where I passed them, there aren’t any pavements for at least a couple of miles in any direction, so doing pretty well on a single charge.

[srchar]

The only problem I see with

The only problem I see with derestrited eBikes is that, in my neck of the woods, they are ridden by complete bellends, with no regard for their own safety, nor that of other road users. As has been said above, they seem to be for people who want to go motorbike-fast, but don’t want to bother with all that pesky and costly training, licensing and insurance.

There’s a bloke who rides one along Bishopsgate who I’ve seen quite a few times while nipping out for lunch. He’s doing 60km/h in total silence, slap bang in the middle of a zombie-ped zone. Not pedalling, not stopping at red lights, not slowing down for hazards. I only hope that when he has his Big One, he doesn’t hurt someone else.

[RMurphy195]

PRSboy wrote:

I don’t personally care, as long as they are on the road.

In my simple view, as you say, a derestricted e bike is an electric motorbike, and has no place on a cycle path.

 

I would add -as such, they should be sunject to motor vegicle taxation, driver licensing etc. and particulalrly insurance. And they have no place on cycle paths, pavements etc.

I even saw readily-convertble ones, including scrambles versions, on a stand at the bike show (“All you need to do is enter a code to improve the performance” was the advertising slogan) – they definitely had no place there, something about which  I made my opinions clear to anyone who would listen at the time. But then,I’m just an old fogey …

[cdamian]

I recently saw someone in a

I recently saw someone in a bikelane here in Barcelona doing 35km/h on one of these e-unicycles.

I am not sure how I feel about it, except that was slipsteaming him.

Personally I wouldn’t ride that fast on one myself.

[Author]

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