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De-restricted e bikes – bit naughty, or an issue?

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  • June 29, 2018 at 9:29 am #28675
    Shades

    Commuting yesterday (Bristol Bath cycle path) doing a respectable 30km/h and (happened twice) suddenly a fairly basic hybrid bike overtook doing at least 35-40km/h.  Spotted the batteries so must have been de-restricted e-bikes which, according to an LBS, is pretty easy to do.  Would knock a massive amount of time off a 1hr5min commute, although with a reduction in the fitness benefit (wouldn’t count on Strava 😉 ).  An LBS also talked about a type of e-bike on the continent that goes above the limit 15mph but you need a special helmet and insurance; not legal in the UK (I think).

    On the face of it, why not; better that than people sitting in cars, but if bike paths have de-restricted e-bikes ripping along you just know something’s going to kick-off.  Good on the road and reducing the speed differential.  Perhaps it’s all part of ‘electric’ taking over, but is a de-restricted e-bike just a slow version of an electric motorbike.  At the end of the day, they’re illegal, but whose going to stop them and with the drive for more cycle infrastructure/more people cycling, could this be an issue that plays in to the hands of the anti-cycling lobby?

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  • June 29, 2018 at 2:55 pm #922517
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    StuInNorway

    Perfectly legal in Norway, as

    Perfectly legal in Norway, as soon as you’ve had it inspected and registered by the roads authority, fitted the supplied licence plate, paid your compulsory insurance, put on your moped/motorcycle helmet, and stay off the shared use, and cycle lanes. 
    It’s a electric moped you see, so needs registered as one.
    We had one of these “illegal” e-bikes a few months ago, spotted by traffic on the road alongside which was doing 60-70km/h being passed by the bike. He hit another cyclist and they other party ended up with a broken neck. He was given a (short) jail term, huge fine and points on his driving licence. The e-bike on testing was found to be capable of over 100km/h without pedalling. Around a 4KW motor if I recall correctly.

    June 29, 2018 at 2:07 pm #922515
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    Anonymous

    On the continent there are

    On the continent there are faster pedelecs (“S-Pedelecs”) – as reviewed on the Road sister site a while back: https://road.cc/ebiketips/content/advice/advice/buying-and-riding-an-s-pedelec-in-the-uk-1637 

    So there are various questions.  At the moment a legal pedelec must a) only provide assistance when the rider is pedalling (assisted walking modes excepted), b) only provide assistance up to 25kph, c) only provide a maximum of 250W assistance at any time.

    In my view a) is the most important part.  If you’re not pedalling, it’s not an e-bike it’s an electric motorbike and you shouldn’t be on a ‘human-powered’ path.  I personally think that the 25kph is a little restrictive and 30 or 35 kph might still be OK, but given almost all cycle paths are shared space in this country it’s not that critical.  Likewise I don’t see any reason not to have a 350W or 500W ‘assistance’ while still keeping conditions a) and b) in place – yes, you’ll get to the limit faster, you might buzz up big hills without effort, but isn’t it the point that e-bikes help people choose not to use their cars and the better they do that, the better?

    Fundamentally – common sense applies and enforcement should follow the harm.  You cause the accident, you are liable for the damages caused, whatever you’re riding.  I was nearly wiped out a couple of weeks back on that path by a mother coming the other swinging out without warning as she looked behind her at her kids; there are incompetents everywhere on foot, on bikes and in cars.

    June 29, 2018 at 1:58 pm #922513
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    Anonymous

    One of those guys on youtube

    One of those guys on youtube with a hopped up ebike is a bellend. He’s got the reactions of a slug and will die fairly soon if he carries on wanging about as if he’s on a motorbike. Seriously, on one vid he posted his braking reaction would be slow doing 10-15mph. Doing more than twice that it was almost accident time.

    Sadly ebikes don’t seem to be attracting the most skilled of bike handlers (probably because the attraction is being a lazy bastard, not actually being good at anything) though I have seen some dude who could wheelie till his battery died.

    June 29, 2018 at 1:42 pm #922511
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    Shades
    cyclesteffer wrote:
    Think I’ve seen the guy you mean, I think he’s an Airbus Engineer. Yes I’m pretty sure his bike can do 35mph+. He sometimes goes along with a mate who has a similar one. They dont even have to pedal.

    I was on my road bike a year or so ago, head down, doing 26mph on the ring road stretch going up to Sainsburys (empty at 6:30am) and he absolutely blew me into the weeds, and vanished into the distance. It is crazy fast.

    Come to think of it, in the brief view I had of one, it did seem like he wasn’t pedalling; looked like the motor was in the rear hub.  It was on a slight uphill bit and was going like stink.

    As the Bath-Bristol run is virtually all bike path, speed is the game changer; lighter bike, get fitter etc.  A de-restricted e bike blows even the hardiest roadies to bits, so could well become more common.

    Mind you, who polices this; I’d rather the police did more important things than chasing e-bikes on a bike path.  Sounds like a modern version of Whacky Races; perhaps I’ll name them Dick Dastardly and Mutley!

    June 29, 2018 at 1:17 pm #922509
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    oceandweller

    Couple of extra points –

    Couple of extra points – derestricted e-bikes are really, super dangerous. If one of them hits you at 30mph you’re gonna get badly hurt. Car bodies are smooth & designed to crumple in a collision but even so your chance of surviving being hit by one aren’t great. Bikes don’t crumple (I know, I’ve crashed all of mine at one time or another) & have sharp bits sticking out. Go figure.

    Also, the kinetic energy of a collision – in effect, the power that goes into you if you’re hit by something – increases in proportion to the square of the speed. A bike travelling at 30mph will do 4 times the damage of a bike doing 15mph, & 16 times the damage of one doing 7.5mph.

    In the event of a collision there’s not even any comeback. The riders aren’t insured (even if they think they are, they’re breaking the law riding a derestricted bike & the insurance won’t pay up) & I’m betting they wouldn’t be able to stump up a few hundred thou for an accident victim who’s suffered a broken neck as a result of their stupidity.

    Sadly, the police won’t do anything about them until someone’s been killed or very seriously injured. Which is likely to happen soon IMO.

    June 29, 2018 at 12:46 pm #922507
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    EddyBerckx

    Most of the e-bikes I seem to

    Most of the e-bikes I seem to see are ridden by people who’d rather ride motorbikes but dont want the hassle of a test or being held to account. All the worst examples of bad cycling – red light jumping, not stopping at ped crossing, weaving about the lane, not looking and so on…at a much higher speed (do any of them stay restricted?)

     

    I’d rather they be in cars rather than on the cycle path with me. Sorry, but thats the truth. In reality we’re talking about london here – there’ve probably come from public transport rather than a car so I’d rather they go back to that.

     

    And with the exception of one guy I saw a few years back it’s not elderly people who are buying them…it’s men in the mid 20’s to 30’s.

     

    EDIT: I’m generalising…which is a bad thing. Not all are ridden like that…but honestly, it’s rare to see one ridden at 15mph or below. If they’re willing to break the law by derestricting them…then they are also probably willing to break the highway code too.

     

    Make them hard to derestrict and they’ll have my full support.

    June 29, 2018 at 11:23 am #922505
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    Stef Marazzi

    Think I’ve seen the guy you

    Think I’ve seen the guy you mean, I think he’s an Airbus Engineer. Yes I’m pretty sure his bike can do 35mph+. He sometimes goes along with a mate who has a similar one. They dont even have to pedal.

    I was on my road bike a year or so ago, head down, doing 26mph on the ring road stretch going up to Sainsburys (empty at 6:30am) and he absolutely blew me into the weeds, and vanished into the distance. It is crazy fast.

    June 29, 2018 at 11:02 am #922503
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    kil0ran

    The continental ones are

    The continental ones are called e-pedelecs – you can make them legal in the UK but you need a motorcycle license, mot, insurance, numberplates, etc.

    Dead simple to de-restrict them, and also remove the 3mph limit when you’re not pedalling.

    June 29, 2018 at 10:55 am #922501
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    hawkinspeter

    I’m less bothered about their

    I’m less bothered about their legality and more concerned with how many collisions they are responsible for. After all, plenty of cars are legal and yet can cause devastating injuries/death, so I’d go with a harm reduction philosophy.

    My concerns with them on shared use paths is that (in my mind) e-bike riders are likely to be less experienced than a typical fast cyclist and may be going quicker than they can react/control and thus cause incidents. However, collisions are going to be bad for the e-bike rider and they are unlikely to continue taking risks when they’ve left a lot of skin on the tarmac, so I reckon the riders will end up being more careful.

    In short, I’d much rather see people on e-bikes than in cars, so I’m quite happy to turn a blind eye to whether they are going too fast (sounds like a challenge to keep up with them – maybe hang off their rear wheel and double up on the injury risks).

    Anti-cycling lobby? They don’t seem to use much logic, so I couldn’t care less about what new thing they’re bleating about.

    June 29, 2018 at 10:41 am #922499
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    PRSboy

    I don’t personally care, as

    I don’t personally care, as long as they are on the road.

    In my simple view, as you say, a derestricted e bike is an electric motorbike, and has no place on a cycle path.

     

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