[DaveE128]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-41839086/mother-releases-dangerous-game-cycle-crash-film-as-warning

So the child is clearly at fault for riding on the wrong side of the road. The wheelie doesn’t help. But does that make it ok for the driver to plough into them when they could easily have slowed or stopped?

The highway code says in the introduction to rules 103-158 “Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.”

It seems to me that the driver was either (i) keen to teach the child a lesson by scaring them with a 1.2 tonne metal object, but was too incompetent  to actually stop in time, or (ii) keen to teach the child a lesson by hitting them with a 1.2 tonne metal object.

Which of the two people is more irresponsible and puerile? Which could reasonably be expected to display such behaviour at their age?

I am glad to note that only bruising was suffered. Maybe we should all wear hoodies? 

Topic

[davel]

Reddleman wrote:

Reddleman wrote:

What larks… harmless behavior by kids with no harmful consequences…. except it could have been different. Some of the commentators above don’t seem to know or acknowledge just how intimidating this sort of behavior can be. 

Around here we often get similar groups ( only a little older) acting in just the same way but riding unlicensed scooters and dirt bikes, no helmets, scarves around faces. … 

I’m sure it’s unpleasant.

I still think I’d choose being hit by an obnoxious teenager on a bike over being hit by a car driven by a well-meaning but incompetent adult.

And really, it’s that that’s pissing people off, isn’t it. ‘Urgh, there’s a bunch of lads doing something I can’t identify with… Bit of bravado, uh-oh, they’re being dicks… It’ll lead to riots, looting and hell-in-a-handcart before we know it.’

Proportion, people. One of the protagonists in the video symbolises behaviour which ultimately kills 105 people per day. A grip needs to be got.

[Reddleman]

What larks… harmless

What larks… harmless behavior by kids with no harmful consequences…. except it could have been different. Some of the commentators above don’t seem to know or acknowledge just how intimidating this sort of behavior can be. 

Around here we often get similar groups ( only a little older) acting in just the same way but riding unlicensed scooters and dirt bikes, no helmets, scarves around faces. … 

[peted76]

Driver should have stopped

Driver should have stopped and didn’t, probably a bit hassled by the gang of yoof taking over the whole road, still, yet another example of bad judement whilst driving a 1.5ton weapon. Prime example of why driving should be a privilege not a right.

Yoofs being intimidating riding down road – one played chicken and lost – his mother calls it right. Yoof has a few bruises and learned not to play chicken with cars. Glad to see common sense prevailed and no charges.

Can only hope yoof was actually scared by this and does not think that even if you do get hit by a car you only get a couple of bruises.

 

[davel]

Silver Rider wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

davel wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

davel wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

Gangs of kids pulling wheelies on bikes like this isn’t always  innocent youthful expression, they will often do it to intimidate or scare other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.  I’ve encountered it several times in London, including when I’ve had a baby in the seat on the back.  The sort of behaviour does need challenging (although ideally not with a tonne of metal) because it’ll be the same kids in a couple of years time throwing shit at you out of the passenger window of their mate’s Corsa.

People disguising bias as objective comment need challenging because it’ll be the same commenters in a couple of years time typing unrestricted bullshit on the Daily Wail.

So you’re OK with people putting other people at risk of harm just to get a reaction/rise out of them and impress your mates? It’s not nice being on the other end of it. I’d say it’s much more in line with  Daily Mail mentality to put your own gratification ahead of other people’s wellbeing.

No, I’m not OK with that, and I’m not saying kids on bikes aren’t capable of being dicks, or of threatening behaviour. I’m not saying you haven’t been intimidated by kids on bikes. But how many kids pulling wheelies on streets throughout the UK this weekend will have just been kids pulling wheelies on streets, vs those doing it as something sinister? How often will it prove to be a gateway to more antisocial behaviour, like you suggest, vs something virtuous, like one of them winning an Olympic medal, or a TdF stage, or not sniffing an aerosol for the first time with their mates because they’re out on their bikes? You haven’t got a clue. Nobody has. So just doing the usual middle-aged stuffed fart of a response of seeing kids doing something ‘in a gang’ and being vaguely threatened by it and assuming the worst, like stuffed farts have been for generations, should be called out as the stuffed fart bias that it is. I see two examples of intimidating behaviour in the video: one by a supposedly responsible and licensed adult wielding something that kills many people, and one by a 14 year-old doing something that’ll get himself hurt. Their behaviour isn’t even on the same chart.

 

Hanging out on bikes or pulling wheelies aren’t what I’m objecting too (and admittedly haven’t worded that clearly) but the ‘chicken’ thing which at the moment tends to feature pulling wheelies and riding at people to scare/intimidate them then swerve away at the last moment is what I experience and object to – round here it’s pedestrians and other cyclists largely on the receiving end. Doesn’t matter if you have the skills to pull it off (unlike the guy in this clip) – putting fear into others for kicks isn’t acceptable.  Even causing cars to have to swerve isn’t on. There are connections between this kind of behaviour and the ‘ride out’ type events featuring motorbikes and mopeds such as the one in Leeds last year, bikes screaming along pavements scaring the shit out of people. It’s not Reclaim the Streets, it’s kind of the opposite to that. Down with this kind of thing 😉

Can’t really disagree with that.

We do fundamentally disagree though.

I basically think teenage lads getting hooked on bikes is A Good Thing, even if splinters use them for doing the types of daft shit that teenage lads are wont to do. If you’re up for more kids on bikes, it follows that the dickhead element will still be dickheads, and they’ll find a way of doing it on bikes.

I basically think that cars being used excessively (most journeys are tiny and easily accomplished by other means) is A Bad Thing, that making unnecessary journeys on residential streets is antisocial in itself, and that the negative impacts of that behaviour is 5 people dead daily through collision, and another 100 dead daily (40,000 annually) through pollution, in the UK alone.

So I’m not condoning either idiot’s behaviour here – but I’m saying that one type of behaviour has really nasty consequences that society shrugs its shoulders about, and the other has barely any consequences and yet society loses its shit about it.

[Silver Rider]

davel wrote:

davel wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

davel wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

Gangs of kids pulling wheelies on bikes like this isn’t always  innocent youthful expression, they will often do it to intimidate or scare other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.  I’ve encountered it several times in London, including when I’ve had a baby in the seat on the back.  The sort of behaviour does need challenging (although ideally not with a tonne of metal) because it’ll be the same kids in a couple of years time throwing shit at you out of the passenger window of their mate’s Corsa.

People disguising bias as objective comment need challenging because it’ll be the same commenters in a couple of years time typing unrestricted bullshit on the Daily Wail.

So you’re OK with people putting other people at risk of harm just to get a reaction/rise out of them and impress your mates? It’s not nice being on the other end of it. I’d say it’s much more in line with  Daily Mail mentality to put your own gratification ahead of other people’s wellbeing.

No, I’m not OK with that, and I’m not saying kids on bikes aren’t capable of being dicks, or of threatening behaviour. I’m not saying you haven’t been intimidated by kids on bikes. But how many kids pulling wheelies on streets throughout the UK this weekend will have just been kids pulling wheelies on streets, vs those doing it as something sinister? How often will it prove to be a gateway to more antisocial behaviour, like you suggest, vs something virtuous, like one of them winning an Olympic medal, or a TdF stage, or not sniffing an aerosol for the first time with their mates because they’re out on their bikes? You haven’t got a clue. Nobody has. So just doing the usual middle-aged stuffed fart of a response of seeing kids doing something ‘in a gang’ and being vaguely threatened by it and assuming the worst, like stuffed farts have been for generations, should be called out as the stuffed fart bias that it is. I see two examples of intimidating behaviour in the video: one by a supposedly responsible and licensed adult wielding something that kills many people, and one by a 14 year-old doing something that’ll get himself hurt. Their behaviour isn’t even on the same chart.

 

Hanging out on bikes or pulling wheelies aren’t what I’m objecting too (and admittedly haven’t worded that clearly) but the ‘chicken’ thing which at the moment tends to feature pulling wheelies and riding at people to scare/intimidate them then swerve away at the last moment is what I experience and object to – round here it’s pedestrians and other cyclists largely on the receiving end. Doesn’t matter if you have the skills to pull it off (unlike the guy in this clip) – putting fear into others for kicks isn’t acceptable.  Even causing cars to have to swerve isn’t on. There are connections between this kind of behaviour and the ‘ride out’ type events featuring motorbikes and mopeds such as the one in Leeds last year, bikes screaming along pavements scaring the shit out of people. It’s not Reclaim the Streets, it’s kind of the opposite to that. Down with this kind of thing 😉

[davel]

Silver Rider wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

davel wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

Gangs of kids pulling wheelies on bikes like this isn’t always  innocent youthful expression, they will often do it to intimidate or scare other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.  I’ve encountered it several times in London, including when I’ve had a baby in the seat on the back.  The sort of behaviour does need challenging (although ideally not with a tonne of metal) because it’ll be the same kids in a couple of years time throwing shit at you out of the passenger window of their mate’s Corsa.

People disguising bias as objective comment need challenging because it’ll be the same commenters in a couple of years time typing unrestricted bullshit on the Daily Wail.

So you’re OK with people putting other people at risk of harm just to get a reaction/rise out of them and impress your mates? It’s not nice being on the other end of it. I’d say it’s much more in line with  Daily Mail mentality to put your own gratification ahead of other people’s wellbeing.

No, I’m not OK with that, and I’m not saying kids on bikes aren’t capable of being dicks, or of threatening behaviour. I’m not saying you haven’t been intimidated by kids on bikes.

But how many kids pulling wheelies on streets throughout the UK this weekend will have just been kids pulling wheelies on streets, vs those doing it as something sinister?

How often will it prove to be a gateway to more antisocial behaviour, like you suggest, vs something virtuous, like one of them winning an Olympic medal, or a TdF stage, or not sniffing an aerosol for the first time with their mates because they’re out on their bikes?

You haven’t got a clue. Nobody has. So just doing the usual middle-aged stuffed fart of a response of seeing kids doing something ‘in a gang’ and being vaguely threatened by it and assuming the worst, like stuffed farts have been for generations, should be called out as the stuffed fart bias that it is.

I see two examples of intimidating behaviour in the video: one by a supposedly responsible and licensed adult wielding something that kills many people, and one by a 14 year-old doing something that’ll get himself hurt. Their behaviour isn’t even on the same chart.

[Silver Rider]

davel wrote:

davel wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

Gangs of kids pulling wheelies on bikes like this isn’t always  innocent youthful expression, they will often do it to intimidate or scare other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.  I’ve encountered it several times in London, including when I’ve had a baby in the seat on the back.  The sort of behaviour does need challenging (although ideally not with a tonne of metal) because it’ll be the same kids in a couple of years time throwing shit at you out of the passenger window of their mate’s Corsa.

People disguising bias as objective comment need challenging because it’ll be the same commenters in a couple of years time typing unrestricted bullshit on the Daily Wail.

So you’re OK with people putting other people at risk of harm just to get a reaction/rise out of them and impress your mates? It’s not nice being on the other end of it. I’d say it’s much more in line with  Daily Mail mentality to put your own gratification ahead of other people’s wellbeing.

[davel]

Silver Rider wrote:

Silver Rider wrote:

Gangs of kids pulling wheelies on bikes like this isn’t always  innocent youthful expression, they will often do it to intimidate or scare other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.  I’ve encountered it several times in London, including when I’ve had a baby in the seat on the back.  The sort of behaviour does need challenging (although ideally not with a tonne of metal) because it’ll be the same kids in a couple of years time throwing shit at you out of the passenger window of their mate’s Corsa.

People disguising bias as objective comment need challenging because it’ll be the same commenters in a couple of years time typing unrestricted bullshit on the Daily Wail.

[Silver Rider]

Gangs of kids pulling

Gangs of kids pulling wheelies on bikes like this isn’t always  innocent youthful expression, they will often do it to intimidate or scare other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians.  I’ve encountered it several times in London, including when I’ve had a baby in the seat on the back.  The sort of behaviour does need challenging (although ideally not with a tonne of metal) because it’ll be the same kids in a couple of years time throwing shit at you out of the passenger window of their mate’s Corsa.

[alansmurphy]

Ooooh, could I use a Global

Ooooh, could I use a Global Hypercolor t-shirt instead of a Power Meter – I’ll credit you on my kickstarter campaign!

[davel]

alansmurphy wrote:

alansmurphy wrote:

davel wrote:

 In my day it was illegal raves, Es and speed, which the conservative media also lost its shit about… But kids pulling wheelies. Really…?

 

Davel I don’t condone your performance enhancing drugs and worry that your suggestion may lead to compulsary glo sticks and whistles for cyclists!

 

If it’s any consolation, my performance remains unenhanced, and I’ve got a load of psychedelic tops that are now so tight I use them for riding!

[davel]

PRSboy wrote:

PRSboy wrote:

But clearly some here have the reactions and skills of a fighter jet pilot and would have avoided him.

Or, some people are making the pretty safe assumption that the street, kids and car didn’t just spring into existence with the start of the video, that wheeliekid was already to the right of the camera (the wrong side of the road), and the driver should have been stopping as soon as she saw the kids.

Of course I’m arguing ideologically too, though. I’d quite like to live somewhere that kids wheelieing doesn’t create moral panic, and where kids on bikes, not impatient arses in cars, have the run of residential streets.

[Bikebikebike]

The driver decided to treat

The driver decided to treat the group of kids as a chicane. If she had just braked when she saw them then all would have been fine. Obviously doing a wheelie on the wrong side of the road is daft, but the driver’s actions were wrong. 

No court in the land would convict her of anything, if she had killed the kid, but the bar for conviction is extremely high. Would she have failed her driving test for that bit of driving? Most definitely an immediate fail. 

[HarryTrauts]

Top marks to his mum for

Top marks to his mum for calling him stupid publically.

[PRSboy]

Its hard to judge from this

Its hard to judge from this video due to the pauses and commentary to get a feel for how quickly it happened, but as far as I can tell, beyond actually reversing, there was little more the driver could do to slow down more as she was stationary at the point of impact.

At 20mph, it takes just over 2 seconds to react and stop, assuming a 0.7 sec reaction time.

Her attention was drawn to the first rider she’d avoided, by the time she’d seen the second she had little time to do anything else.

But clearly some here have the reactions and skills of a fighter jet pilot and would have avoided him.

[Author]

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