Home

the past two weeks have shown frankly unbelievable results and times if you believe the peloton is clean.

Seeing a 35 year old win so many times, better than he was doping and younger riders being blasted out are for me clear warning signs. I love watching the cycling, I love the coverage but I am lose to giving it up because so many seem gullible. The latest is this nonsense ....

the Inner Ring @inrng
Fabio Aru tells La Gazzetta Dello Sport he got dysentery, 5kg weight loss no figure of speech, went from 62kg to 57kg, now at 60kg

dysentery, oh FFS what a lie

then the case of Kittel disappearing with a 'virus'

the reluctance to kick out Astana

Is it really back to the EPO days ?

I had so many hopes for Cookson

44 comments

Avatar
AJ101 [278 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Dude, wait til summer, we can still believe in Froome, especially now his Bilharzia is cleared up and he is ok to use his inhaler for his asthma during events. He will be the picture of health and tearing up all the dodgy dopers come Le Tour.

As a rule of thumb for the other races it always makes me wonder when the Eurosport commentators cry out with an exclamation at a big attack "Look at him go, what an unbelievable attack from....(insert foreign name here)"

I think Cookson means well but has found out that the problem is so entrenched he's got a much bigger problem on his hands than he had hoped.

Avatar
Martyn_K [261 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

At a certain point in time there needs to be a line drawn in the sand and an attitude change from the media and fans of the sport.

Moving away from the 'presumed guilty' thought process to 'presumed innocent' will benefit the sport massively. There are riders out there now that have zero direct relationship with the dark days of the sport yet are still hassled and quizzed about doping.

Obviously Aru rides in a team with a history and the management of that team have been proven cheats, but what about Aru himself? Noting a weight change as grounds for being a cheat is dangerous. I know a couple of guys that lost large amounts of weight due to illness when they were already very light.

I myself lost 2.5kgs after a Majorca bootcamp in the spring when i was already 7% body fat. These things do happen.

Cookson did a huge job in turning round British Cycling when there was an overall desire to change. There appears to be some within the UCI that still want to run the sport like the old days. Changing the UCI and cycling as a whole may take a bit longer but we are well on the right road.

All sports have cheats. We need to trust the processes in place that are designed to catch them. Branding athletes as cheats due to hearsay and rumour is damaging for everyone.

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

I understand people lose weight to illness but dysentery for a pro athlete ?? that is what makes it so unbelievable ...

We tried the presumed innocent before 'I have had never failed a test' and that proved to false. For any pro sportsman, be it Contador, Aru, Valverde, Nadal, Gatlin, Bolt, Farah etc I now have presumed guilt if they are associated with known drug cheats or have doped themselves.

I am sure few are stupid enough to use EPO now etc but we are seeing new techniques all the time and doctors associated with them ...

Yes bikes have got lighter more aero etc of course that is true but power output is different and the guys now are matching the power of the dopers, does that not make you think ?

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
AJ101 wrote:

I think Cookson means well but has found out that the problem is so entrenched he's got a much bigger problem on his hands than he had hoped.

Dopers will always been front of testers of course and Cookson is not the like his previous incumbents either, I have faith in him. However the press on the other hand, where is Walsh nowadays, he was spot on about LA etc why is he not questioning others ?

He of course did himself no favours be embedding in with Sky of course.

Avatar
AJ101 [278 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Is Aru not at 6.5w/kg now? I think it was that which set the alarm bells ringing.

If Cookson was really serious he could introduce start line testing. Or he could publish the test results from the 2008 CERA tests and sanction anyone caught with bans.

He probably looked at that, but then realised he'd have no peloton left and would have to look to the Surrey League and CTC to find his next crop of rider to fill the races!

Avatar
Kadinkski [780 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Completely agree. Its like the world wrestling federation, a complete fantasy. I find it difficult to believe there are still adults that are actually interested in professional cycling.

It used to make me angry, but I don't even care anymore.

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

It makes me angry because I WANT to believe they are clean. I do believe the younger riders are, I think they have grown up knowing the dangers and want to be clean.

It is the older riders, with teams full of dopers as helpers that concerns me.

I WANT Froome to be clean, I WANT to believe he does what he does by his own talent and hard work, I just find it so damn HARD to believe it.

Avatar
Kadinkski [780 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Why waste your valuable time watching such a farce? Don't get angry. Just give up on it. Stop following it. Honestly, I've loved cycling so much more since I gave up on the morons that run and participate in the professional cycling racket.

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Because 20 years ago it was watching the TDF on C4 and ES that got me into this great sport.

Not something I can give up despite all the reservations

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Because 20 years ago it was watching the TDF on C4 and ES that got me into this great sport.

Not something I can give up despite all the reservations

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

I have to ask do cycling fans care about doping ?

Avatar
Chasseur Patate [151 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
ianrobo wrote:

I have to ask do cycling fans care about doping ?

I care about it but I don't let it stop me enjoying the sport I love. I enjoy the racing and if they get popped, they get popped. Anyone thinking cycling is any different to any other sport needs to wake up. Football, athletics, tennis, rugby, baseball, basketball etc etc. All have drug cheats in their ranks. Cycling has been the fall guy but you watch ANY sport and there are drug cheats on your TV.

The one thing that really irks me about doping in cycling is 'fans' of specific teams claiming that their 'team' must be clean as a whistle because that team say they are. Whilst some teams may be dodgier than others, they all have majorly suspect stuff going on and you'd have to be seriously ignorant not to accept that. The Johnny come lately Wiggo revolution tub-thumpers are by far the worst for this.

I'm all for PED testing, I'm all for riders getting lifetime bans when they get caught, but in all sports it still goes on to this day. And, contrary to many beliefs, in all teams. Cookson is on the right path though and change is slowly coming but you'll never get rid of cheating. Ever.

Chill out and as I've said, just enjoy the racing.

Avatar
crikey [1251 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Two quotes which sum it up:

'Professional cycling is like sausages; I like sausages, but I don't want to know how they are made'

'Watching Pro cycling is like watching Game of Thrones; best not to get too attached to any of the main characters'

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

well anyone watching the big fight this weekend is ignoring the fact one of the fighters dopes and likely the other has but fight fans ignore that.

I can not in any sport ignore doping because it cheats those who are not, obviously.

Life bans is where I am for any doping offence and that IMHO would have a significant deterrent. Plus if sponsors etc ask for money back if people dope ...

Avatar
mike the bike [1080 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
crikey wrote:

Two quotes which sum it up:

'Professional cycling is like sausages; I like sausages, but I don't want to know how they are made'.......

My first job after leaving school involved making sausages for a local butcher. Now, fifty years later, every time I'm faced with a sausage I still think of those hours spent pushing fatty off-cuts of gristle through a mincer.
But hey, I'd sooner have a sausage than be hungry.

Avatar
Simon E [3338 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
mike the bike wrote:

I'd sooner have a sausage than be hungry.

I'd prefer to go hungry for a little longer and find something rather better.

Avatar
ianrobo [1215 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Avatar
farrell [1946 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
ianrobo wrote:

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Surely if he was using the virus as a cover for missing the race to avoid a "glow" period being detected, it would be pretty pointless to actually go and attempt the race?

The testers would be able to take a sample when he gets back to the team bus.

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde [1839 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Pandora's box is open and no man can close it.

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another, in fact the more a team/rider wins it probably makes it clear he does. In some ways Armstrong is right, that doping makes it a level playing field...of sorts. There is still competition because at the apex of the arms race testing is helping give parity. But like all sports, money buys winners - money buys guarantees and it does that by buying the insurance of medication which is a shame. Money, as anyone who follows the Premiership spoils competition.

I can still enjoy the races. But the things I enjoy the most are the unpredictable, the chaos thrown into the system - E3 this year will remain with me for a long time, and Omloop.

Avatar
Chasseur Patate [151 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

That said. When Valverde and Rebellin win I tend to throw stuff at my telly. It's like being at the pantomime. Every show needs a bad guy.

Booooooooo!!!!!!

Avatar
Chasseur Patate [151 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
ianrobo wrote:

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Clutching at straws with Kittel there to be honest. Other than being extremely quick (which isn't a crime btw) there are no alarm bells ringing with him for me. He was reported as looking quite ill at the start today.

Avatar
fukawitribe [2448 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde [1839 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
fukawitribe wrote:
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Nope. I'm not saying that they are doping equally efficiently. I'm saying that they are all in an arms race and that they all pick up the weapons of war. If you read my comment again. You'll see I then talk about the role of money.

I could qualify things further. But this is a comments page. Not an essay page.

Avatar
fukawitribe [2448 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
Colin Peyresourde wrote:
fukawitribe wrote:
Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Nope. I'm not saying that they are doping equally efficiently.

Indeed i'm not assuming the same efficiency but it would seem to involve a such a huge difference in it that the odds of it being a viable hypothesis are dropping markedly.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I'm saying that they are all in an arms race and that they all pick up the weapons of war. If you read my comment again. You'll see I then talk about the role of money.

Of course they're in an arms race, and there is a huge amount of money in many sports (not much, all things considered, in pro-cycling at the team level) - but without any realistic evidence for the effects of all this cash it makes you wonder whether there is something more nuanced going one... and this is also disregarding the fact that, even considering that pharmaceutical application will always lead detection, the physical performance of the riders doesn't seem to track the budgets. I'm sure there is a significant amount of doping still going on in the pro-peloton but I don't have the absolute conviction that every team is knowingly and systemically doing it that you have - and you don't seem to have any compelling evidence to suggest you're correct.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I could qualify things further. But this is a comments page. Not an essay page.

I'm all ears...

Avatar
manmachine [101 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

LMFAO...
'Life bans' giving up pro cycling...etc, etc.
 20 20 20 24 24 24

Another hysterical episode of the fan-boy Muppet show!

Avatar
pants [239 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

When the last Astana scandal broke out I said to myself I will no longer follow pro cycling if the team can carry on riding, and now here they are. Fuck it, everyone should just go out for rides and watch old videos of Eddy Merckx.

Avatar
bashthebox [752 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

If Kittel was doping he'd be able to get up hills without looking like a sunday rider. He's also an extremely outspoken advocate for clean cycling. I'm giving him a very wide pass; he's fast in the finish but absolutely nothing about the way he rides suggests doping.

Avatar
AJ101 [278 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes
bashthebox wrote:

If Kittel was doping he'd be able to get up hills without looking like a sunday rider. He's also an extremely outspoken advocate for clean cycling. I'm giving him a very wide pass; he's fast in the finish but absolutely nothing about the way he rides suggests doping.

Absolutely mate, the blood irradiation treatment he was doing back in 2006ish wasn't illegal then, so he was in the clear. He is totally 100% trustable rider.

Avatar
Kadinkski [780 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Kittel's as bent as any of them. Removing his blood, treating it with ultraviolet light and then transferring it back into his system like a dirty criminal. It wasn't ruled illegal until later but doing that after all the blood doping & transfusion scandals. The lengths he is prepared to go to. What does that tell you about him?

Avatar
AJ101 [278 posts] 3 years ago
0 likes

Well at least he doesn't keep wobbling around cos of Tramadol usage or get his salbutamol machine out before launching a big attack...

Pages