With almost all the UK’s cycle routes on one double-sided map, The Ultimate UK Cycle Route Planner is a really useful companion to online map systems for longer rides.
Online route-planning sites are great, but sometimes you need a bigger view than they provide. The Ultimate UK Cycle Route Planner gives you that wide-angle view. The Route Planner gathers all the UK’s designated cycling routes into one map, from the Sustrans National Cycle Network to less-publicised routes like Swans Way in Northamptonshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire. The only significant network I can think of that’s missing is the National Byway, perhaps because its routing on minor roads doesn’t fit the Route Planner’s traffic-free emphasis.
Unlike a lot of online maps, railway lines and stations are clearly shown here so you can plan train-assisted rides too. Canalside paths are also marked in three degrees of usability: no cycling, NCN cycle route and possibly cycleable.
I do like that ‘possibly’. For me, the most memorable rides involve an element of exploration. That can be just riding a new route, but it’s exciting to head down a road and not be sure it’s actually passable.
If you like a little bit more certainty, you might find the UK Cycle Route Planner is over-reliant on the Sustrans National Cycle Network. Even Sustrans itself has admitted some of the network isn’t fit for purpose, and while some of the worst sections have been removed from the official network there’s still a high degree of uncertainty when it comes to just what sort of surface quality you should expect. Some of the tracks marked on here are barely passable by mountain bike. For example, there’s a section of the Icknield Way south-west of Thetford – marked here among ‘cyclable national trails & signed mountain bike routes’ – that was six inches deep in sand when I tried to ride it a few years ago.
On the other hand, one of my local trails, Worsted Street Roman Road, is marked as a mountain bike track when it’s quite doable on a hybrid or a road bike with 28mm tyres, especially in dry weather.
> 4 reasons why your next bike should be a touring bike
Relying on the Sustrans network brings another problem – that it ignores enormous numbers of great minor roads. The UK’s best cycling is on minor roads, because the vast majority of them have proper hard surfaces (albeit battered ones after 13 years of Tory neglect) but very little traffic as drivers stick to A and B roads.
> GPS cycle route planning made easy – how to plan and follow a bike route
The Planner does have some roads marked as ‘suggested minor road links’ and this is something I’d like to see a lot more of, though I suspect marking all of them would make many areas almost into solid masses of purple. Maybe Excellent Books can set up a method of people submitting approved routes, or use heatmaps from Garmin or Strava that in my experience tend to do a good job of steering away from the busiest roads.
It could be I’m asking for serious scope creep here. The UK Cycle Route Planner focuses on traffic-free routes and does about as good a job as it’s possible to do of collecting them all on one map.
Conclusions
I don’t think more route information could be crammed into a single map without it having to be unfeasibly large. If your cycling life involves planning longer rides, this map could be a big help.
Who should buy the UK Cycle Route Planner?
If you want to plan longer routes than is easily feasible on a typical online map tool, this is for you.
Verdict
Information-dense map with a vast network of UK traffic-free or low-traffic routes
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road.cc test report
Make and model: The Ultimate UK Cycle Route Planner 4th Edition
Size tested: n/a
Tell us what the product is for and who it’s aimed at. What do the manufacturers say about it? How does that compare to your own feelings about it?
Excellent Books says:
All of the UK’s signed cycle routes together on one map – National Cycle Network and other waymarked cycle routes. Double-sided to cover England, Wales and Scotland.
Brings all of the UK’s signed cycle routes together on one map.
Uses the outstanding quality and detail of Times Comprehensive Atlas mapping, Sustrans’ National Cycle Network and other popular cycle trails are featured and defined – traffic free or on road.
Family cyclists will love the listed traffic free trails.
Tell us some more about the technical aspects of the product?
Page Size: 120 x 240 mm
Publisher: Excellent Books
Edition: 4th edition, January 2023
Binding: Sheet map (folded)
Illustrations: Colour mapping
Weight: 120g
Tidily printed and folded with the cover neatly glued on.
Delivers a bunch of useful information in one big ol’ map.
It’s made from paper so best not used as an impromptu umbrella, groundsheet or shield against gunfire.
Paper construction helps keep the gram-count down.
Well-finished edges seem to reduce risk of paper cuts.
Other cycling-orientated paper maps are in the same ballpark, but just a tenner to have all this information in one place is a bargain!
Tell us how the product performed overall when used for its designed purpose
Very well.
Tell us what you particularly liked about the product
Lots of route possibilities in one gert big map.
Tell us what you particularly disliked about the product
Lack of National Byway; more recommended minor roads would be good.
How does the price compare to that of similar products in the market, including ones recently tested on road.cc?
As far as I can tell the UK Cycle Route Planner is unique. Other cycling-orientated paper maps are in the same ballpark.
Did you enjoy using the product? Yes
Would you consider buying the product? Yes
Would you recommend the product to a friend? Yes
Use this box to explain your overall score
This is a very good idea, well executed.
About the tester
Age: 56
I usually ride: Scapin Style My best bike is:
I’ve been riding for: Over 20 years I ride: Most days I would class myself as: Expert
I regularly do the following types of riding: commuting, touring, club rides, general fitness riding, mtb,
82 thoughts on “The Ultimate UK Cycle Route Planner”
’13 Years of Tory neglect’.
’13 Years of Tory neglect’. Really? So labour administrations have prioritised the maintenance of our minor road networks have they? Presumably in the opinion of the reviewer, all badly repaired minor roads are the responsibility of conservative councils, whilst those maintained by labour or Lib Dem councils are pothole free and billiard table smooth? I don’t disagree that our roads suffer in comparison to those in certain of our European neighbours, but to equate this to politics is cheap. Can I therefore respectfully suggest the reviewer keeps their ill-informed political preferences out of cycling reviews?
I dislike the tories as much
I dislike the tories as much as most but its an overused cheap shot for sure. We didn’t live in a utopia before they gained power and I doubt we will live in one after Labour have had a few years in power either.
Fortunately we don’t have to
Fortunately we don’t have to wait that long to see what life would be like under a Labour government.
Simply cast your eyes westward past Offa’s Dyke and gaze in wonder at the socialist utopia.
The NHS is working perfectly, the education system continues to climb world rankings, roads are perfectly maintained and the people are joyful.
Alternatively, health, education and virtually all public services are objectively worse.
Stevenson won’t let inconvenient facts get in the way of his little rants though.
Rich_cb wrote:
You certainly haven’t let the inconvenient fact of Wales’ budget allocation being cut by £1.6 billion (22%) in real terms by the UK government get in the way of yours.
Rich_cb wrote:
It may be very far from perfect – like every administration, ever – but the Welsh government has, within the restrictions placed by Westminster, attempted positive steps that those Tory bastards in London would never even contemplate.
But since you have repeatedly voted for the most despicable bunch of incompetent, law-breaking, moneygrabbing shysters, grifters and morons in living memory AND the worst economic & political decision that anyone can think of you really don’t have a leg to stand on.
However, I agree with Dadams7378 that the laughable provision of cycling infrastructure in the UK is not just the Tories’ fault. Mind you, the recent cut to the active travel budget (cause for celebration among Tories and gammons everywhere) is yet another blow to any hopes of getting anything done. Funny how there’s lots of money for guns and bombs and £27 billion for new roads, most of which will only make things worse, but people who want to cycle can get into arguments on a measly shared path or be directed miles out of their way down some shitty lane.
Such as?
Such as?
Don’t fall for the recent road building announcement.
Half the schemes will go ahead under a different mechanism and the Welsh Government are already backtracking furiously on the overall idea.
They’ve also recently slashed bus funding and have announced they will not be matching the free child care recently announced for England.
You might not like the Conservatives but try living under the alternative. Worse public services compared to England despite higher levels of funding.
Why on earth should I vote for Labour when that is what they’ve been delivering to Wales for over 25 years?
Rich_cb wrote:
I’m not talking about that.
If you want to talk bus funding then Shropshire (in England) is a not-so-fine example, public services cut and cut and cut, bus services run down over the last decade or more by a Conservative-led administration that reeks of corruption and is, to cite just one example, desperate to build a £100million+ road for which they don’t have the money and can’t justify it.
I’ve lived under the alternative and stand by my assertion. None of the alternatives are anywhere near as shit as the Tories. The Thatcher/Major years were shitty enough but this lot are far worse. Perhaps all the so-called austerity measures, countless scandals, bare-faced lies, privatisation and accompanying hatchet job on public services, culture wars, food banks, bonfire of employment rights and human rights etc don’t bother you but we’ve not had anything this bad since before WW II. Perhaps 1930s-style policies (and pandering to the far-right) is working out better for you than for the rest of us.
Here come the tired 1930s
Here come the tired 1930s tropes.
Read a history book.
Seriously.
If you think a country which welcomed 1/2 million immigrants last year from mostly non white countries, which has a Prime minister from an ethnic minority and the most diverse and representative cabinet in Europe is in anyway similar to the far right regimes of the 1930s then you’re merely demonstrating your own ignorance of history.
I live in Wales, we’ve had a Labour government since 1997.
The NHS is markedly worse than the English NHS.
The education system likewise.
There is no additional support for childcare costs here.
This is all despite funding being 20% higher per head of population.
Why would I not vote for a Conservative party that is doing a better job of delivering public services with significantly fewer resources?
Welsh Labour are incompetent, complacent and, in many cases, corrupt.
Rich_cb wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble but they’re not ‘tired’ at all.
If you think that Welsh Labour is more corrupt than the Tories then you really haven’t been paying attention. The Tory corruption across the whole of the UK is far, far deeper, more entrenched and damaging than anything that the Senedd could even begin to contemplate. And how you can even pretend that they’re delivering decent public services is quite beyond my comprehension.
If you keep believing the crap such as that Small Boats are the problem and Rwanda is the solution, swallow the myth of the Daily Mail being a newspaper and quietly turn a blind eye to everything else that’s falling apart then I’m sure everything will seem to be just fine.
The Conservatives are
The Conservatives are delivering better public services than Welsh Labour.
Look up NHS waiting lists, A+E waiting times and PISA rankings if you want objective evidence of this.
If you want evidence of Welsh Labour corruption look up the NRW timber deals, the Green Man farm deal and meetings beforehand and the land sales prior to the Cardiff development plan.
The 1930s tropes are not just tired, they’re positively exhausted, usually rolled out by those with no other argument to make.
You didn’t address a single one of my points which undermine your sad attempt at a Godwin .
Well said, and I live in
Well said, and I live in Wales, yes there are problems but the Tories are not the fix they calim to be!
Same franchise since 1997?
Same franchise since 1997? Sounds like long past time for a change – almost at any cost!
America and the UK seem to function at the large level as “time share states”. Two franchises with two colours, you can have one or another but that’s it (any chance of a Plaid Cymru majority?) They’ve grown closer to each other over time and after a short time graft sets in whoever’s the government. (For a moderate level of graft compared to many places of course…) Switch sides and repeat. Maybe the best we can hope for (Churchill’s “best of the worst”)?
Does anyone have experience of the more “coalition”-style of democracies? The major drawback there seems to be gridlock – but then you can get the same e.g. in the US.
Wales is basically a one
Wales is basically a one party state.
Roll on the revolution.
Rich_cb wrote:
If you think fascism is impossible for non-white people or politicians, you’re demonstrating your own ignorance. There have been numerous regimes in Africa that have demonstrated some or all of the most significant traits of fascism, and far right Hindu nationalism in India very definitely does so. I would not say that our current government, much as I abhor it, is exhibiting signs of fascism, but claiming that a government can’t be fascist because it has a range of races in its ranks is quite patently ridiculous.
Once again Rendel you miss
Once again Rendel you miss the point spectacularly.
I didn’t say that non white people aren’t capable of racism or race based policies, that’s simply your fevered imagination at work once more.
The point is that we have a very diverse and representative government relative to every other country in Europe. The cabinet has members from multiple ethnicities and religious backgrounds.
We welcome immigrants from every corner of the globe and non European immigration has increased hugely under the policies of said government.
In that regard the government and its immigration policies are the exact antithesis of 1930s European fascism for which racial and/or religious purity was a cornerstone.
I’m struggling to think of a
I’m struggling to think of a significant difference between any of them.
If I had to find something positive to say about any of them though, the Blair years were better for the British people than for Iraqis and Afghans.
You don’t think the fact that
You don’t think the fact that council budgets have been cut on average by 37% in real terms since 2010 has had any effect on the ability of councils to maintain the road network properly?
No, not least because the
No, not least because the highways agency get 20bn to spend on roads of which a large chunk is maintenance, because councils, and not all councils have responsibilities for roads, do have the budget to fix potholes properly, it’s down to them to choose how to spend their budget, alot of them divert those funds to other projects, which is their choice, and voters choice to challenge them on funding priorities.
Do you think councils should just have unlimited budgets to keep fixing potholes, and more often not revisiting the same spots repeatedly year after year, or be challenged to fix them properly?
Personally I’d like to see higher levies on utilities for digging up roads as they seem to be increasingly making a poor job of filling them in which leads to more potholes the councils then pay to fix.
Ultimately none of that has anything to do with the map being reviewed here which for most cyclists could easily be offered as an app download which then fixes the durability, and would allow for better handling of the detail and additions and minor roads left out and might be a more relevant aspect to highlight.
Awavey wrote:
Seems to me that more money should come from logistics companies and heavy vehicles that do the most damage to the roads. Rather than the continual freeze on fuel tax, there should be a road damage tax that applies to the heaviest vehicles. Ideally, that should go directly towards a central fund for repairing roads properly and not just for the improvement of London roads.
Awavey wrote:
Yes. Too many “public liabilities, private (company) benefits” in our system. Sadly that doesn’t fit very well (for the general public) with the popular idea of “cut taxes all round”. But no-one wants to pay for what it seems they can get for free.
The greater coordination of street works is – AFAIK – a significant difference between the UK and e.g. NL.
However – there are also other things like the trend (deliberate policy) long-term of promoting road transport over e.g. rail. And the growing axle weight of private cars. Lots of little can still be a lot… As Hawkinspeter suggests factoring in vehicle weight to taxes might help here, since the old VED will need to change as electric vehicles come in.
Awavey wrote:
So you don’t feel that having their budget cut by 37% will have some influence on the choices the council has to make? That sounds rather Tory thinking, if you’ll excuse me saying so, take away more than a third of the budget and then say you ought to still be providing the same level of service, it’s just you are choosing not to. National Highways (it’s not been called the Highways Agency since 2015) is only responsible for the maintenance of motorways and major A roads, by the way, so nothing to do with the minor roads Jon mentioned here.
No, Suffolk spend around
No, Suffolk spend around 30million a year on pothole repairs, and they have responsibilities across the major road network in places where youd expect the HA to own the problems.
Alot of their repairs are repeat jobs and theyve been wasting money continually fixing the same issue, consequently theyve just signed a deal worth 1billion over 20 years so upping the spend to 50million with inflation over the 20 years, with a new firm who its hoped will do a better job and cut the waste of repeatedly fixing the same problems that is just burning their money.
Councils are great at spending all their budgets, unless you keep them focused on delivering results.
Maybe that is “Tory thinking” but I’d rather a council were forced to make the budget they get deliver the best value, and deliver efficiency, than give them blank cheques.
Wow, 20 comments and counting
Wow, 20 comments and counting on a review about a £10 book! It’s pointless to engage in an argument about whether or not the state of the roads is the fault of the conservative government IMO. My point was that snarky political pronouncements should probably be kept out of cycling reviews. The answer to why our roads are closer to third world than first world in places will be a complicated and multi faceted one, hence my comment about it being a cheap and lazy shot. No doubt funding will play a part, but so will the choices that are made by local councils. As another poster has pointed out, the recent global pressures on the public purse have an influence as well. I just think that if the reviewer wants to make a political point about our road network, maybe he should see if Road.cc will let him post a different article – ‘Our Crap Roads And Why This Is All the Fault of the Evil Cyclist Hating Tories’ perhaps?
It’s almost like road.cc make
It’s almost like road.cc make a deliberate editorial choice to produce contentious content in order to drive clicks and comments.
In this regard they’ve delivered a masterclass today.
You do realise that if you
You do realise that if you hadn’t jumped in complaining about a throwaway political remark none of this discussion would have happened? Most people would have just passed over it with a nod or a sigh depending on their politics. You tossed the snowball and now you’re complaining about the avalanche!
Rendel Harris wrote:
No Rendel. This is Road.cc generating unnecessarily contentious and click-baity content like a… *checks notes* … Review of a Route map.
Storm, meet teacup 😉
I know, bastards. There was a
I know, bastards. There was a right old to-do over on a thread under a review of a cycling anorak as well, surely they must have realised what will happen if you just go around willy-nilly reviewing anoraks?
Rendel Harris wrote:
The irony is they seem like anoraks themselves!
Yes, of course I realise that
Yes, of course I realise that (but nice analogy, like it). I confess I assumed it would provoke some response (most likely from the author, however he is conspicuous by his absence), but clearly not the extent. This was evidently a naive assumption, but I’m new to this forum! I’m not complaining, it’s all good knockabout stuff (though totally off topic, obvs).
Nothing state funded works
Nothing state funded works better today than in 2010. Deny it all you wish but the facts care nothing for your feelings
jaymack wrote:
But we’ve taken back control and got it done. Surely that counts for something?
Yes, of course you’re right,
Yes, of course you’re right, please accept my sincere apologies. Meanwhile in other news the cycling map reviewed in this article looks marvellous. But that’s probably because it’s UK only…whoops sorry did it again…
That statement applies in
That statement applies in Wales and Scotland too.
That implies that the cause is not necessarily party political.
It’s almost like we’ve had a global financial crisis followed by a global pandemic that have both coincided with the baby boomer population bulge moving into retirement and starting to require increasing amounts of public services.
Barnet formula means that
Barnet formula means that spending cuts by the westminster government entail less money in the devolved regions. They can allocate it differently, but it is difficult to have a bigger pot to spend.
The Welsh government get
The Welsh government get about £1.20 for every £1 spent on devolved services in England.
The fact that they deliver worse services with a 20% higher budget is quite telling.
The Welsh Government can also raise taxes to fund services. They choose not to.
The UK tax take is now projected to be the highest since WW2 as a percentage of GDP. We are still running an annual deficit with the national debt now a whisker short of 100% of GDP.
Two huge global crises in short succession with a concurrent huge demographic shift have wreaked havoc with government finances across the developed world.
The idea that increased funding for public services can easily be achieved is a fallacy.
Rich_cb wrote:
How much would that
How much would that realistically raise?
‘Off shore tax loopholes’ are almost impossible to eliminate so realistic gains are minimal.
Inheritance tax raises small amounts in governmental terms, any significant increase in rates will simply lead to more avoidance so again gains are minimal.
Fuel duty increases would help but the overall take will still decline precipitously as EVs become commonplace so will be a short term help at best. It will also decrease discretionary spending elsewhere and push up inflation.
Pavement parking fines will be minimal in the grand scheme of things and I believe the necessary legislation to allow councils to fine for this is already in progress.
Legalising some drugs will almost certainly happen as this is an easy win and has been done in US already.
Defunding the military during the first major European land war in 75 years might not be the best choice.
Rich_cb wrote:
Maybe I’ve misread the room, but the current bunch of muppets don’t seem at all inclined to make progressive moves on drug classification.
I’m not going to address your other complaints as they can be easily addressed, but will take too much space here – the point is that there’s plenty that can be done to improve the public purse, but there’s no evidence that the Tories have any interest in that – they seek to destroy public services so that they can sell them off cheap to their mates to make a quick buck.
And what’s the motivation for
And what’s the motivation for the SNP and Welsh Labour to destroy public services?
Both are running an NHS that is significantly underperforming relative to an English NHS that is apparently being deliberately run into the ground.
The current take take is at post war highs in terms of GDP.
Is that not evidence that the Conservative government is interested in ‘improving the public purse’?
Rich_cb wrote:
Are they wanting to do that or are they being backed into a corner due to reduced money in real terms?
I’d also be wary of just looking at the numbers when trying to evaluate something as complicated as the NHS.
To my mind, the most important political job is to remove the Tories from power as soon as possible. Once we’ve got rid of them, let’s deal with the other politicians (of any party) that work against the public interest and for personal profit.
In Wales it’s a definite
In Wales it’s a definite choice to underfund the NHS.
Welsh Labour actually spend less on the NHS as a percentage of their budget than the Conservatives do in England. The resultant underfunding is a political choice.
The Conservatives are a convenient bogeyman but most people choose to ignore the fact that public services are mostly better in England than they are in Scotland and, especially, Wales.
Rich_cb wrote:
Excise duty per litre is down by just under 40% in real terms since 2011, and it is actually 10% lower in *cash* terms. There’s a hell of a lot of scope there to bring in £10-20bn pa extra.
On electrical vehicles, I predict that they will be paying £3000 tax per annum each within 7-8 years, since that is approx the loss from each ICE vehicle. Our current Govt are leaving a time bomb for Mr Starmer, imo because it is their Hail Mary pass for the next election.
I think the “Highest Tax Take” since the war stuff is pure political guff shorn of context. Are many Western countries differen? I’ll give you eg France destroying it’s energy industry before nationalising and hiking the national debt for Ms Macaron to delay stuff until after the election; look at him now.
As for Council Tax, that’s up because of Govt contribution cuts (worse in Scotland iirc), so we need the proportional property tax.
And I’d take away the House Price Inflation driving CGT Exemption on main dwellings whilst I was at it.
I think road pricing is on
I think road pricing is on its way for all cars. The infrastructure going in across the country is set up for that, it will still be a politically ‘brave’ move but I think it’s inevitable.
Higher council tax with revised bandings would also make a lot of sense. It seems insane that a £20m mansion should pay only slightly more council tax than a £50000 terrace.
I don’t really buy the idea that £20bn can be raised from fuel duty, for most people it’s mostly non discretionary spending so that money will simply come out of the economy somewhere else.
The Telegraph has an interesting little feature today where you can compare your personal taxation rate under each prime minister since Thatcher. For higher earners the Blair/Brown years were apparently the best. Cameron and May best for low earners. Obviously it’s just looking at income taxes so doesn’t capture the full scope but a nice little counterweight to the usual arguments trotted out.
Generally sounds good. More
Generally sounds good. More pertinently we need to fix “road tax” (e.g. VED) and maybe stop wasting such large sums via the road budget!
“introduce long-term thinking” is a many-pipe problem and a great source of hubris! We’re not good at long-term and there are certainly some specific things to tackle here. There is no “solution” to balancing things here of course – humans are not long-term artifacts, nor are many human creations (societies, ideas…).
Also noting:
– are there any “natural experiments” we can examine for guidance (e.g. other comparable places / times)? This does work for cycling infra e.g. looking at our own history / just over 100 miles to the south-east! rich_cb has at least given the Welsh example – exactly how comparable can then be debated.
– beware unintended consequences! Putting the likes of Michael Gove and Boris Johnson in charge of dealing drugs might not actually be so much better than letting “private industry” handle this…
– any new system neeeds to be self-perpetuating
… and of course if you do indeed create utopia your neighbours may get jealous / lots of people may come over to enjoy the benefits.
hawkinspeter wrote:
— Rich_cb
The inheritance tax is a big one for me. So few people pay any inference tax because they set up their finances so that they leave an estate <£325k in value (or <£650k for a surviving spouse). By gifting the remainder, a person can get out of paying any inheritance tax at all. It's a complete farce.
Exactly, it’s basically a tax
Exactly, it’s basically a tax on unexpected death.
Anyone with an estate large enough to pay Inheritance Tax has enough money to legally avoid paying it.
I’d prefer a Land Value Tax or similar. At one time this was actually Labour policy.
Rich_cb wrote:
I wouldn’t – purely because I’d be highly dubious of how it’s calculated. You don’t have to spend much time in a rural community to see that “owning land” =! “rich”. I have neighbours with 10+ acre hillside smallholdings (that have been in their family for generations) that struggle to afford shoes. The land couldn’t be used for much else due to it’s location, wildlife protections, etc. You couldn’t build houses there for example. All a LVT would do is force these people out of thier homes and destroy these communities.
If it can’t be used for much
If it can’t be used for much then it will have a value commensurate with that.
You can buy thousands of acres in the Highlands for the same price as a few square metres in central London.
I’d include an exemption/reduction for agriculture, which ironically, is already in place for IHT leading to lots of wealthy people (Clarkson for example) ‘taking up’ farming.
Rich_cb wrote:
It still has “value” as second-home/country retreat for the rich, who wouldn’t be worried about not being able to develop it, and a 1-2% LVT (going on purchase price) would still be completely beyond the reach of every single member of my local community. Gentrification of rural communities is already an issue, and introducing an LVT would just massively accelerate that, as it would force these people out of their homes and replace them with Londoners who wouldn’t even blink at a £10-50k annual LVT payment ( whould probably also be leaving the property empty for 6-11 months a year).
I’d argue that ‘Londoners’
I’d argue that ‘Londoners’ would have far less money to spend under an LVT.
2% per annum of a London property is going to be significant. That’s a lot less money to spend on second homes which will also attract an additional LVT payment.
If the land isn’t being used for agriculture (and thus is ineligible for exemption) and isn’t useful for anything else then I’m struggling to see how it could be worth a lot of money.
If an LTV encouraged that land to be used for agriculture then that would be a benefit IMO.
Rich_cb wrote:
Non-working smallholdings are worth a lot as second homes/country retreats. the people already in properties like this could not afford a 1-2% market value LVT on homes they’ve lived in their whole lives, their parents lived in, their grandparents lived in, ect.
You could be right that an LTV could re-balance the market and people from London could no longer afford these second properties, causing their value to drop significantly, but the people currently in these communities would already have been forced out of their homes by the time this happens. If you place a barrier on living in rural location that only rich people could possibly meet, then guess what? Only rich people will.
Some of it can’t be, due the type/amount of land/protected woodland/wildlife protections, etc. These properties are still valuable as second homes for people that have no intention of working/developing the land. The people currently living in these properties could not afford an LTV based on what some investment banker would be willing to pay for the property as a summer retreat.
For the property rich but
For the property rich but cash poor you could always allow a deferral to be made against the property value until the next change of ownership.
As I said, an LTV will make second home ownership more difficult in general so will protect this sort of propertt as far as that is possible in a free market.
It’s complex but apparently
It’s complex but apparently lots of the Highland estates / islands were used in some way recently as surety / holding capital for corporations. (I don’t understand this myself but there are detailed books and indeed a website for looking it up). Some of which as been re-claimed by communities / trusts – albeit often at large cost to the general taxpayer…
Interestingly this all came about by a political collectivisation, aristocratic takeover and then the market and “new money” moving in! (Also a complex issue – again good literature available).
I believe that austerity
I believe that austerity applied throughout the UK.
The Welsh government receives
The Welsh government receives a far greater amount of funding per person than England for devolved services.
The services delivered are objectively worse despite this.
They also have the power to raise taxes. They choose not to use those powers.
Public spending pre 2008 was already unsustainable, once the financial crash hit it was inevitable it would have to fall regardless of who was in power.
I assume you mean ‘the facts
I assume you mean ‘the facts according to jaymack’? It must be nice to live in your black and white utopian world, speaking ‘your truths’, happily free from those troublesome nuances, counter arguments, different opinions and grey areas. Nothing about the article or your repeated post hurt my feelings. I just believe there is a time and place for political pronouncements and demonstrating your anti-Tory credentials, and this article wasn’t it.
Politics dictates everything
Politics dictates everything from the quality of the air we breath to how clean the streets are and how frequently the bins are emptied. You are welcome to express your views whenever and however you wish. As for political views being expressed in the article, road.cc ain’t the BBC. May you live long and prosper.
And the same to you. Views
And the same to you. Views are fine, but silly, lazy statements like asserting as a ‘fact’ that no public services are better now than in 2010 is just dragging the quality of discourse down to ‘I’m right and you’re wrong and nothing you say will make any difference to my ‘truth”. In my ‘view’, it’s a very short step from this to the frankly frightening cancel culture environment we seem to be heading towards nowadays.
The thing about the alleged
The thing about the alleged cancel culture is that if one is used to priveledge equality feels like oppression. And I’d also like to add that I’ve now ordered a copy of the map just in case anyone thought I was only interested in being grumpy. But I did only buy one ‘cos it’s got red lines on it.
jaymack wrote:
That’s a bit of a truism and a trope.
Specifica examples? NHS Diabetes Services are significantly improved.
And for that I truly rejoice.
And for that I truly rejoice.
When I lived in Hull West,
When I lived in Hull West, the local labour rep was against improvement for anyone cycling, or for affordable homes either, which shows labour, like many parties is a franchise. Still despise the Tories though.
Andrewbanshee wrote:
I still live in Hull West and that is still true.
It is, however, the “greener, more progressive” LIberal Democrats who are now planning to tear out the segregated cycle lanes that Labour put in place.
Anything that relies heavily
Anything that relies heavily on Sustrans is going to be useless. They are an absolute abomination that either needs disbanding or radical reform. There is a section of their “national cycling network” near me that is 10 miles of muddy path, which ends in two flights of stairs. I believe there are sections that are only usable on fat bikes at low tide!
if it isn’t usable by an 8 year old on 28mm tyres on a wet Tuesday in February, it shouldn’t be classed as a cycling route
In the UK there seems to be
In the UK there seems to be at least 2 classes of cycle routes. One is for leisure cycling, which seems to be the main type for Sustrans. The other is put your life in someone else’s hands. Neither really get you to where you want to go safely or for commuting, in a timely manner.
“notional cycle network”.
“notional cycle network”.
As to Sustrans generally – they seem (at least near me) to have improved … slightly. The issues seemed to be at the top and their eagerness – nay desperation – to get their name on anything, no matter the quality.
They now talk the talk at least. Still always keep a wary eye on their efforts though.
If you’re close / friendly enough to e.g. councils to be able to influence things (as opposed to shouting ineffectively from the sidelines) there is a strong chance you’ll be corrupted. Or rather become too sympathetic to the “but we can’t change things for the majority (drivers)” view”. Doing “something rather than nothing” where the “something” is actually a complete waste of money or even counterproductive.
Unsurprisingly Sustrans (not actually a cycling organisation) have often provided what is actually pedestrian infra, assuming that a few cyclists will mix in and all will be fine. That is a common view – but effectively guarantees there won’t be many cyclists. It’s not comfortable for many of either mode to mix – they have their own requirements and need their own appropriate spaces.
I read the comments for any
I read the comments for any feedback on the review of the route planner ..
Wow a 54-comment thread for a
Wow! A 54-comment thread for a cycle route planner. It must really be somethi-
Oh for fucks sake…
Back to the original point.
Back to the original point. This map is just what I want and road.cc has told me about it. You have to be a certain type of person to complain about a useful review!
Yep, very good review I
Yep, very good review I thought. Added to my Christmas list.
Added to my Christmas list
Added to my Christmas list
Wow! That is really heavy duty patience!
Well as a proud Yorkshireman
Well as a proud Yorkshireman every penny in my pocket is a prisoner.
Yep, I’ve ordered it. Looks
Yep, I’ve ordered it. Looks great 🙂
I’ve been busy since
I’ve been busy since yesterday, have I missed anything?
mark1a wrote:
Well I liked the review
Well I liked the review anyway.
is this thread still going?
is this thread still going?
[reads to the end of the thread…].
Yep, we’re on to the Nazi part of the discussion now
Doesn’t seem to have much to
Doesn’t seem to have much to do with cycling if you ask me.
perce wrote:
Have you never come across the Strauss-Howe generational theory of history, better known as the four cycles?
I apologise for my part in the hijacking of the thread but I do think it’s important that when such pernicious alt-right lies as “the Nazis were all socialists” raise their heads they should be challenged whatever the forum, even at the risk of derailing the discussion.
No need to apologise – I’m
No need to apologise – I’m just off to my local ghetto to see if I can get a bottle of leftie kool-aid.
I usually just skim through
I usually just skim through his comments. Having read them properly I take your point.
There is a ridiculous article
There is a ridiculous article written by Peter Hitchens a Mail columnist that I believe Nigel will have read.
https://twitter.com/marshall_proEU/status/1636316829474865157?t=s2id4pm4PlqEAkkqfsiY8w&s=19
I suspect he just wanted to import this into this forum as a Troll tactic to create a shitstorm.
While I sometimes agree that ridiculous arguments need to be knocked down, in this case, with his tactics so transparent, maybe it isn’t worth the interaction.
PS the twitter thread kind of sums up the tactic.
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