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Frame Size Question

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  • April 9, 2018 at 9:47 am #28342
    .mossy

    Hi all,

    Just seeking some advice on bike frame sizing ahead of a new bike purchase.

    To give you some background, my stats are as follows: height 184cm, inseam 92cm, arm span 188cm.

    I’ve been riding a 2014 Giant Defy 1 (M/L) over the last 4 years. Despite several bike fits with a very reputable local fitter, the bike has never fit me brilliantly. Several changes have been made to make it more comfortable for me, which have helped, but it’s far from perfect. (I should really have done more research on the geometry before I purchased it, however, it was my first road bike and I’ve learnt my lesson, hence doing some thorough research now before purchasing a new bike!).

    As can be seen from above, I have long legs for my height. I currently ride with a saddle height of 810mm and despite shortening of the stem by 30mm during a fit last year, I’m still struggling with reach and feel very stretched out to the front of the bike. Riding on the hoods is uncomfortable and not sustainable for any length of time and I tend to spend most of my time riding with my hands on the corners between the tops and hoods. I feel excessive pressure through my hands (like I’ve got someone sitting on my shoulders!) and as a result tend to get numbness in the hands and although spending more time on the drops is easier on the arms, I then suffer from pressure on the soft tissue “downstairs”. I have purchased a new saddle (Fabric Line race saddle), in the hope that that will help with the soft tissue issue. While I endeavour to keep a soft bend in my elbows, I subconsciously want to lock my arms out to take some of the strain off the muscles.

    Essentially, I’m looking for some advice on where I should direct my search in terms of brands / models of bike with a geometry that will suit me better? I.e. shorter top tube?

    My Giant Defy has a top tube length of 560mm and while this isn’t huge, it seems to be a touch longer than most equivalent lengths on similar sized frames. I’ve looked at the Canyon Ultimate – I’d like to go with a small to get the benefit of a top tube that’s 17mm shorter, but then I’m limited by the max. saddle height of 790mm. So instead do I go medium to get the required saddle height and shorten the stem? (as the top tube on the medium is only 4mm shorter than my Defy). If so, how much can I shorten it by before the handling starts to suffer?

    Would appreciate any thoughts – thanks in advance.

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  • April 14, 2018 at 11:08 pm #916553
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    Dr Winston

    Quite interesting replies to

    Quite interesting replies to my earlier reply.  I’m gonna do the context thing before i carry on. I’m a returning cyclist after very many years so things have changed and it’s worth remebering that i live(and ride) on the West Lancs plain where wind is a major factor (always)…so i’ll continue…

    I used to work at a place that had a good cycling community in the 80’s…chief amongst them being this chap here…http://www.ttlegends.org/men-cyclists/?mid=4704&t…

    Back then Stuart..and indeed all of us…had no problem putting the handlebars up and down depending upon the wind in any given week…never even entered our heads that a fixed measurement would be better…. Further…Aero bars were a new thing so basically they went on and off our bikes depending on the weather…a crap week they went on…and for fine weather they came off.

    Also.

    To answer the original post. Stuart was an amateur time trialist of some note, and a big note,  but his “summer bike” and indeed his “winter bike” (aka as his work bike/club bike) was nothing more than a regular, damned near entry level, 501 framed hack bike deliberately chosen as a “heavy bike” to get the benefit of when he entered competitions.

    How times have changed.  

     

    April 13, 2018 at 12:01 pm #916551
    0
    MoutonDeMontagne
    rando wrote:
    I too struggle to find frames that fit – 185cm height with 93cm inseam.

    Currently ride a Trek Domane 5.2 (summer)and 2.3 (winter) in size 60cm. I am also looking for a new summer bike just for a change and after a bike fit the recommendations are very limited for me due to leg length and short body. The bikes suggested are Cervelo C series, Cannondale Synapse, Look 765, Bianchi Infinito and Focus Paralane so basically the ‘endurance’ range . (The Giant Defy did not feature as between sizes really L to XL)

    Was hoping for Cervelo R3 to fit but just long and low and do not want a really short stem with lots of spacers ! I suggest a bike fit like the others have said purely because like me you are not of normal dimensions ! Good luck. I am still deciding and desperately doing my stretching to improve flexability.

    Definately try and demo a Synapse in that case. I know a few people, myself included, who ride supersixes/Caads when based on the riding we do would normally suggest the Synapse, purely because the Synapse is too short

    April 13, 2018 at 11:39 am #916549
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    hawkinspeter
    Dr Winston wrote:
    The first thing to do…and a point that is missed very often…is to think about where you ride and the terrain you ride on….

    I’m a returning cyclist so i will only give my experience from days of old. 

    Way back then then (80’s and 90’s) i rode a 24″ frame on the flat around West lancs….vast and wide open plains…

    If the weather said a windy week ahead i lowered the handlebars as far as possible to “ride under the wind” and the seat went down a tad and i rode flat(ish) and put the tri bars on….and if the weather said no wind then the handlebars/seat came back up and my bike set up was set to “comfort”…no need for anything else…

    I have no idea why so many cyclists these days fail to see that they can adjust their bike based on the day ahead…Pro’s do…or at least they used to do…

    I think the current reasoning is that you’re better off keeping your bike position relatively consistent so that your muscles are all working efficiently. It can take riders a couple of weeks to fully adjust to a new position, though good flexibility will speed that up dramatically.

    April 13, 2018 at 11:25 am #916547
    0
    700c
    MoutonDeMontagne wrote:
    Seems a bit extreme. For one, suddenly slamming your stem is going to make riding quite uncomfortable for most people, especially those newer to cycling who may not have a high degree of spinal flexibility. Also based on personal experience, I find that messing about with my saddle hight only has two effects, either hurting my knees or affecting my hamstrings and consequently the amount of power I can put out (too high = cramp, too low = less power). Generally once you set your saddle height, that should stay fairly constant from a biomechanical point of view. 

     

    Completely agree. Changing the fundamental geometry of the bike from one day to the next, like the saddle to bar drop, or the reach, is going to cause a massive problem for the average rider. A pro may be more likely to be able to cope with this though I guess many wouldn’t.

    An example: One ride about 15 miles from home my bars pitched forward after hitting a pothole. I  did a quick but inadequate adjustment on the fly which caused me to over-reach but I put up with it. This caused periformis syndrome with several expensive  trips to the  physio to sort. 

    April 13, 2018 at 10:31 am #916545
    0
    MoutonDeMontagne
    Dr Winston wrote:
    The first thing to do…and a point that is missed very often…is to think about where you ride and the terrain you ride on….

    I’m a returning cyclist so i will only give my experience from days of old. 

    Way back then then (80’s and 90’s) i rode a 24″ frame on the flat around West lancs….vast and wide open plains…

    If the weather said a windy week ahead i lowered the handlebars as far as possible to “ride under the wind” and the seat went down a tad and i rode flat(ish) and put the tri bars on….and if the weather said no wind then the handlebars/seat came back up and my bike set up was set to “comfort”…no need for anything else…

    I have no idea why so many cyclists these days fail to see that they can adjust their bike based on the day ahead…Pro’s do…or at least they used to do…

    Seems a bit extreme. For one, suddenly slamming your stem is going to make riding quite uncomfortable for most people, especially those newer to cycling who may not have a high degree of spinal flexibility. Also based on personal experience, I find that messing about with my saddle hight only has two effects, either hurting my knees or affecting my hamstrings and consequently the amount of power I can put out (too high = cramp, too low = less power). Generally once you set your saddle height, that should stay fairly constant from a biomechanical point of view. 

    Bars are a different matter I accept, as otherwise switching between MTB, CX, TT and Road would be impossible, but one of the best ways of getting comfortable on the roadbike is getting a set up that works, then riding with it, so that your body adapts and gets used to that position. Then as your flexibility improves, you can take the position lower and longer should you wish. 

    April 13, 2018 at 12:24 am #916543
    0
    Dr Winston

    The first thing to do…and a

    The first thing to do…and a point that is missed very often…is to think about where you ride and the terrain you ride on….

    I’m a returning cyclist so i will only give my experience from days of old. 

    Way back then then (80’s and 90’s) i rode a 24″ frame on the flat around West lancs….vast and wide open plains…

    If the weather said a windy week ahead i lowered the handlebars as far as possible to “ride under the wind” and the seat went down a tad and i rode flat(ish) and put the tri bars on….and if the weather said no wind then the handlebars/seat came back up and my bike set up was set to “comfort”…no need for anything else…

    I have no idea why so many cyclists these days fail to see that they can adjust their bike based on the day ahead…Pro’s do…or at least they used to do…

     

     

    April 10, 2018 at 10:51 am #916541
    0
    rando

    I too struggle to find frames

    I too struggle to find frames that fit – 185cm height with 93cm inseam.

    Currently ride a Trek Domane 5.2 (summer)and 2.3 (winter) in size 60cm. I am also looking for a new summer bike just for a change and after a bike fit the recommendations are very limited for me due to leg length and short body. The bikes suggested are Cervelo C series, Cannondale Synapse, Look 765, Bianchi Infinito and Focus Paralane so basically the ‘endurance’ range . (The Giant Defy did not feature as between sizes really L to XL)

    Was hoping for Cervelo R3 to fit but just long and low and do not want a really short stem with lots of spacers ! I suggest a bike fit like the others have said purely because like me you are not of normal dimensions ! Good luck. I am still deciding and desperately doing my stretching to improve flexability.

     

    April 10, 2018 at 9:55 am #916539
    0
    MoutonDeMontagne

    Another reccomendation for a

    Another reccomendation for a in depth bike fit. I used to lock my arms out and get numb hands, and the thing that solved it was a narrower bar as well as a slightly higher saddle height.

    Unfortunately, you can spend a fortune swapping and changing things that may or not work, so I’d suggest paying the extra to get fitted properly and go from there. Its odd in a way that you’re struggling for reach on a Defy, as normally that’d be the more endurace focused frame, but depends on the individual. 

    Another thing that really affects bike comfort is your flexibility in you hips/back – i.e. can you touch our toes, how close can you get. It’s the most boring and unenjoyable part of cycling, but stretching will help massivly as the more you ride, the worse you’ll get without it. Stretching and lengthening your hamstrings and back will allow you to rotate forward more from your hips, shortening your reach and allowing your core to take some of the weight off of your arms. Alternatively – go to yoga! 

    April 10, 2018 at 9:51 am #916537
    0
    SteveAustin

    bikefit in “it didnt work for

    bikefit in “it didnt work for me shocker!!”  

    Giants are really hard to get the right size, as they have only got a few sizes across their range, so its very easy to fit in between sizes as that is how they have designed their ranges. the longer you raise your seatpost, the longer you make the TT length, this is exagerated on Giants due to their *versatile* bike sizing.   It seems Giants (or at least the one you have been riding) are not right for you.

    I would visit a few shops, and try a few bikes, but dont waste more money on bikefits.

    April 10, 2018 at 8:37 am #916535
    0
    philhubbard

    If you put where you are

    If you put where you are based we may be able to help you out with some shops that offer a good service. With a Retul fit as Pete said they put you on a static bike and just keep stretching and shrinking it for you until it is perfect. 

     

    They then pop the measurements into the computer and it should give you your ideal bikes and sizes. An endurance model sounds like it could be right for taking some pressure of your wrists and maybe a saddle a little longer in length may help so you can slide forward.

    April 10, 2018 at 8:16 am #916533
    0
    peted76

    good answer from Raekwl above

    good answer from Raekwl above. Pro tip on the handlebar reach if you’re comfortable on the drops but not the hoods.

    Ultimatley you’re not average, so you fall between the gaps in the market.. so you should look to get a proper bike fit before buying the next one.. if you’ve got the cash to do this, it should be well worth it. A lot of fitters now will size you up to suitable frames/bikes and some shops offer this as a service where it costs nowt if you get the bike from them afterwards.. this is a more boutique than buying a stock bike off a stock website to save some cash.. but it’s probably well worth the effort and a better answer for you.

    April 10, 2018 at 7:54 am #916531
    0
    Raekw1

    I’m no expert, but wouldn’t

    I’m no expert, but wouldn’t it be an idea to look at a frame that has a longer head tube and shorter tt like endurace or another “comfort” frame, so that you don’t have to bend over as much? I’m 1cm taller than you, with 1cm shorter inseam and the same armspan, and i have no problems with the reach on a 58 cannondale caad12, which has about the same tt length as Canyon ultimate L.

    More people are probably going to give you a lot of good answers, but i think a more comfortable geometry could do you well, you can still go low on the drops. Another thing is handlebar reach, maybe a compact bar would be better for you? I’m also guessing you don’t have slammed stem?

    Good luck!

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