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ianrobo.
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February 24, 2015 at 8:08 pm #23358
pablo
So as the title suggests how did you get over it?
This weekend i did a Hilly Sportive i did it last year and for this year i specifically trained for it. I took 20 minutes out of my time with a course that was 4 miles longer. I should be happy but i’m not i’ve figured out how to climb without blowing up but descending at speed scares the life out of me. The feeling that the bike is completely out of my control moving all over the place and generally on the edge of falling off i can’t beat. I’m never going to be the best but being in control without fear is surely an achievable next target!
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so I come down a 2KM average
so I come down a 2KM average of 10% plus last week and was in the bottom 10 of segments on Strava. Basically had the bike on brakes all the way down as ‘scared’ I may go over the front of the bars, stupid I know …got to better than that as coming down the alps with brakes full on for 10-20K is not exactly efficient.
I was told my an experienced
I was told my an experienced descender who has done the Alps etc not to break int he corner, if you have to you are too late.Quince
rjfrussell wrote:Quince
rjfrussell wrote:Quince wrote:Speed is not dangerous on its own.
This, and indeed your full post, is of course factually accurate. And on an intellectual level, very difficult.The big problem that I have (and I suspect others posting to this thread have) is that no matter how much I tell my head to tell my body that speed on its own is not dangerous, it scares the shit out of me on a bike.
I gave up skiing for the same reason. But you can’t ski up hill. At least cycling has some point left to it!
I was trying to make the point (which Colin has helped me out with) that to be a competent and confident descender, you need to be both used to the feeling of ‘going fast’, and relatively skilled at turning corners.
The former is not really skill-based, more a matter of acclimatisation, and I was suggesting finding some descents with very little turning just to practice ‘getting used’ to being fast, safe in the knowledge that you don’t really have to do anything from bottom to top.
My second point was more about developing ‘skills’, and involved a lot of slowing down and practicing actually moving body and bike.
It’s precisely BECAUSE ‘speed on its own scares the shit out of’ pretty much ANYONE on a bike, that I was suggesting practicing ‘speed’ in isolation, in a safe and (literally) straightforward environment, where you don’t have to worry about turning or crashing, so your mind can gradually stop screaming… Hopefully. That was the idea, anyway.
I’m sorry if my post came across as a bit wooden, blunt, and/or full of unhelpful truisms.
Cyclist
crazy-legs wrote:The absolute
crazy-legs wrote:The absolute #1 is to have confidence in the bike.^^^^^^^ absoloutly this
rjfrussell
Martyn_K wrote:
But i thinkMartyn_K wrote:
But i think they should give themselves some slack. Do not put pressure on yourself to be quick. Reducing that pressure and relaxing will likely result in a
positive effect.The thing is, if you are a cojones-less descender (as I am), it is not a question of putting pressure on yourself to be quick. It is a raw and naked fear when you think about letting go of the brakes.
Though, I have to say, it really does show the value of boards such as this. Having mulled over a lot of the comments on this thread I deliberately chose a route today with wide-ish, straightish, longish descents… and hit a new top speed.
Thanks guys!
Martyn_K
Like most aspects of life and
Like most aspects of life and cycling, different people are good at different things. Some people are naturally good at climbing, some at driving it out on the flat and others descending.A good deal of this is subconscious and could be deemed as natural talent. Each individual will be able to train to a certain degree and improve their natural ability but there will always be a threshold where no further improvement can be made. It is also worth noting that some people will learn quicker and easier.
I’m not saying that the opening poster should think they have reached their limit. But i think they should give themselves some slack. Do not put pressure on yourself to be quick. Reducing that pressure and relaxing will likely result in a positive effect.
We have a guy in our club who is not the greatest climber and will always be a few minutes behind when topping out a long climb. But my word he can descend. When asked how he drops so quickly he can’t explain it, it just happens. He has never raced, never been in to MTB and does not ride a motorcycle. You could argue it is natural ability.
Stay upright, stay safe, enjoy the view.
Colin Peyresourde
I was thinking about the
I was thinking about the counter steering till it made my head hurt. It so intuitive that if you need to teach it there’s probably little hope. Not sure it’s a winner on descents. It might help in a hair pin, but if you don’t know the road you may find that out too late.Quince wrote:Speed is not
Quince wrote:Speed is not dangerous on its own.
……This is a mantra to live by. But to give it justice, it should be expressed in its fullest, which is that ‘speed in itself does not dangerous, it is the stopping’.
The first part is the most important part. As long as the road is straight and you can see your exit do not put a hand on the brake. Once you see the bend you modulate your speed you can see the where you need to slow yourself, the closer you get, you should start to see your exit and as soon as you do, let the brakes off again.
Give yourself simple rules for your approach and follow these until they become second nature. If you give in to fear you have all ready failed…..I think Yoda said that.
Must be Mad
There is no harm in just
There is no harm in just going down at the speed you are comfortable.
When doing a sportive, going 5mph slower down a hill will have a minimal impact to your overall time, but going 1mph faster up it will have a much bigger effect.Plus, there is more kudos for being ‘king of the climb’ than ‘king of the drop’
But some random thoughts:
1) If your bike was becoming unstable at speed – was this because of a cross wind or rough surface? If not, then there could be a mechanical problem with the bike.
2) If you don’t know the decent, then you should always proceed with caution
3) riding in a group will let you see how others take the decent. Back off their wheel 20m or so, and follow them down. If they get into difficulty, you will have that extra warning time.
crikey
I don’t know whether it’s the
I don’t know whether it’s the way I’m explaining it, but the people who are good on bikes are good because of practice rather than a theoretical understanding of the physics involved. Countersteering is one of those esoteric things that some people think is secret knowledge, both in the motorcycle and cycling world, but it’s just not that important.Proof? Children ride bicycles and go on to become expert bike handlers without ever being taught about countersteering. It’s interesting in a deeper explanation of what’s happening kind of way, but it’s far less important than practicing on your bike to make it do what you want.
I was 38 when I first learned about it, reading A Twist of the Wrist, yet I’d done all my riding and racing by then…
tomisitt
There’s a very good piece in
There’s a very good piece in the latest Cycling Active on cornering skills…thoroughly recommended 😉JonD
crikey wrote:My point is that
crikey wrote:My point is that you don’t need to understand it to corner well, and, as above anyone who rides a bike is able to countersteer.If they can corner well already, good luck to ’em – they’re able to do something which *results* in countersteering. But NOT everyone is able to corner well.
As I’ve already said, if they find themselves running wide and/or having trouble with mid-corner corrections, without knowing HOW to fix it they’re unlikely to.
Some years ago the m/c test was changed to include a swerve test – the point being that some riders will try to ‘steer’ around an obstacle as if at low speed which results in turning the wrong way.
(One recumbent I ride has bars under the seat – like an upright so pretty intuitive but it corners better if you actively countersteer. The other has a tiller – swinging it the ‘wrong’ way is a headf*ck at first.)This stuff has been taught by the Californian Superbike School for years as a matter of dissecting each part of riding -one chapter in ‘Twist Of The Wrist – in part its also about overcoming ‘survival reactions’ – eg turning the wrong way to avoid an object or braking mid-corner.
Get it wrong on a bicycle and it’s probably gravel rash and bruises. Getting it wrong on a motorcycle – particularly on road rather than track – and it’s a whole lot nastier.
Cornering principles are the same for both – set your corner speed, choose your line, turn in, ride out, looking where you want to go (ie no target fixation).
My point is that you don’t
My point is that you don’t need to understand it to corner well, and, as above anyone who rides a bike is able to countersteer. It’s simply a description of part of the process.
It’s a bit like riding a bike fast; there are numerous processes involved but knowing about oxygen uptake and delivery or the production of lactate doesn’t help you do it any faster. Pressing on harder does.pants
The best way to learn is to
The best way to learn is to follow a good descender ahead of you, just follow their line, it’s also much easier to spot hazards like oncoming cars in narrow lanes or road debris by looking at the rider ahead.crikey wrote:Quote:Don’t
crikey wrote:Don’t think its been explicitly mentioned yet – on a bike/motorcycle at speed you countersteer to turnI know that in discussions about bicycle handling, countersteering usually crops up at some point. It’s not really that important because it’s the way two wheeled things work; if you ride a bike, you can already countersteer.
Not so. A lot of riders – cycle or motorcycle- *kinda* get it but really aren’t aware of what’s involved, plus it seems counter-intuitive – a common m/c tip was/is to ‘weight the inside peg’ which has a similar effect but is far less efficient than bar input. So if they find themselves running wide they dont understand how to fix it – I had the same problem myself on one particular traffic roundabout despite riding road and mtb for years
The OP asked for suggestions to improve their descending/cornering – its possible that may be part of the solution. Just because you think you have it sorted doesn’t mean everyone does.
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