Re: cadence – why can’t I peddle faster and do I really need to?

roadie69 · 2014-10-23T21:03:38+01:00

Hi, First time poster, sorry if it's in the wrong place on the forum. I read and hear that a cadence of 90+ is the most efficient rpm for cycling. I've been riding a bike, mtb and road for most of my life, but occasionally competitively for the last 15 years. I'm now 40. On the turbo I struggle to get over 80rpm at a constant power output - looking at what I'm doing on long climbs I'm lucky to average 65rpm. Riders that I ride with at the same sort of pace are up in the high 80's, low 90's. If I drop a gear or 5 and try and match their cadence I get lactate building very quickly and I drop off the pace. I've a mate who has just started riding and I've given him some 'advice' he we'll over a 100kg and my age. His can maintain a cadence of well over 90 on the trainer and on the road. What gives? Watching old clips of riders in the late 80's of earlier the cadence seems much slower (ie lemond). My question is, do I really need to focus on my hideously slow legs? Or do I just ignore it. I don't get as many knee problems as I used to and wonder if I'm just not physiologically able to increase my cadence that much. I've tried in small increments (like trying to ride at 81rpm, rather than 80 rpm on the trainer) but hit a lactate brick wall on every attempt, and as it's painful to try it reduces my motivator to carry on. Any ideas?

This topic has 32 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 7 months ago by Quince.

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October 23, 2014 at 9:03 pm #22629

roadie69

Hi,
First time poster, sorry if it’s in the wrong place on the forum.

I read and hear that a cadence of 90+ is the most efficient rpm for cycling. I’ve been riding a bike, mtb and road for most of my life, but occasionally competitively for the last 15 years. I’m now 40. On the turbo I struggle to get over 80rpm at a constant power output – looking at what I’m doing on long climbs I’m lucky to average 65rpm. Riders that I ride with at the same sort of pace are up in the high 80’s, low 90’s. If I drop a gear or 5 and try and match their cadence I get lactate building very quickly and I drop off the pace.

I’ve a mate who has just started riding and I’ve given him some ‘advice’ he we’ll over a 100kg and my age. His can maintain a cadence of well over 90 on the trainer and on the road. What gives?

Watching old clips of riders in the late 80’s of earlier the cadence seems much slower (ie lemond). My question is, do I really need to focus on my hideously slow legs? Or do I just ignore it. I don’t get as many knee problems as I used to and wonder if I’m just not physiologically able to increase my cadence that much. I’ve tried in small increments (like trying to ride at 81rpm, rather than 80 rpm on the trainer) but hit a lactate brick wall on every attempt, and as it’s painful to try it reduces my motivator to carry on.

Any ideas?
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October 29, 2014 at 10:12 pm #818891
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Quince

Simon E wrote:roadie69
Simon E wrote:
roadie69 wrote:
Loose weight, or buy more gears?

If you can only do one then lose weight. It will do far more for both your health and physical fitness than any amount of bike bling (and you’ll feel better for it).

A cassette with 28 teeth will help a bit but you will gain far more by working on your condition and technique. There are lots of articles out there, this is a good place to start:

How to cycle uphill techniques

Very detailed but some good points here:
http://www.cptips.com/climb.htm

And remember that nothing worth achieving is ever easy.

I found that first think really informative, so thank you for posting it. It’s nice to see an article on climbing by someone with a lot of experience of tackling British hills – which tend to be a different sort of beast from their long, but gentler Alpine cousins.

If the OP hasn’t already done so, I would recommend giving the first link a solid read.

October 29, 2014 at 8:29 pm #818889
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adrianoconnor

Maybe try riding mostly in
Maybe try riding mostly in your small ring over winter. Your muscles should pretty soon adapt, probably within a few weeks, and you’ll find you can eventually ride the same sort of speeds with the lower gears as you could before in the big gears.

October 29, 2014 at 3:06 pm #818887
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bigmel

The post by notfastenough is
The post by notfastenough is the most helpful here.

We see this a lot in the bike club, new riders with low cadences pushing a high gear. Effectively you are constantly straining your muscles and knees with high torque grinding, and your endurance is poor as the muscle fibres eventually become fatigued.

Instead, think many smaller pushes instead of a few large ones.
The benefits of the easier pedal strokes are numerous – more fat utilisation as individual stroke power requirement falls, less muscle strain & fatigue, development of oxygen & fuel pathways.
And as long as you can fuel yourself, endurance.

You will need to sort out your pedal stroke to produce a smooth action as the revs rise (no bouncing around in the saddle).

October 29, 2014 at 2:27 pm #818885
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Simon E

roadie69 wrote:Loose weight,
roadie69 wrote:
Loose weight, or buy more gears?

If you can only do one then lose weight. It will do far more for both your health and physical fitness than any amount of bike bling (and you’ll feel better for it).

A cassette with 28 teeth will help a bit but you will gain far more by working on your condition and technique. There are lots of articles out there, this is a good place to start:

How to cycle uphill techniques

Very detailed but some good points here:
http://www.cptips.com/climb.htm

And remember that nothing worth achieving is ever easy.

October 28, 2014 at 10:26 pm #818883
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roadie69

Yup, only train on the road
Yup, only train on the road (or trainer for intervals). I went for what was supposed to be recovery spin on Monday and bumped into some riding buddies and the pace sped up on the flat, we were going quite a rate (44kph) and I checked my cadence when I got home and I was well over 90. So it just looks to me that I’m grinding up climbs, but fine on the flats. So my body is able to do the cadence. I run a compact and 12/26 on the back, but still seem to run out of gears to keep up to 90rpm on the climbs. Most of them (the long ones) are less than 7% where I live. I think it I was trying to do 90rpm up a climb in my easiest gear I’d be putting out over 500 watts. I just can’t do that for long enough to get to the top of a long climb without loosing a lung.

Loose weight, or buy more gears?

October 28, 2014 at 9:50 pm #818881
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racyrich

Do you train in a group on
Do you train in a group on the road?
Go on a group ride, sit on the back and make sure you’re in at least one gear lower than the next lowest geared person in the group. Ideally this will be on a flattish route.
The neurological adaptations needed to make fast pedalling natural are best learned when you’re not also having to try hard. Skill training and fitness training are best kept separate until you’re well-trained enough to start combining them.

October 28, 2014 at 3:57 pm #818879
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Anonymous

I’m lucky in that my legs
I’m lucky in that my legs seem to just naturally flap around at 90rpm unless the resistance is too much, a legacy of trying to ride my bikes down hills as fast as possible when I was a kid. However I have trouble climbing the very steepest hills because once I’m in bottom gear and my cadence slows the longer duration of each ‘push’ really starts to burn.

Having said that, with a 34×32 on the CX when I say steep we really are talking about >15% … not too many of them around.

October 28, 2014 at 10:59 am #818877
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Jimmy Ray Will

As commented above…
As commented above… practice makes perfect.

From what I am reading I’d say that you are simply going too hard when trying to use a higher cadence. So rather than changing down, you are pressing harder on the pedals.

Make sure you increase cadence by lowering the gearing.

And also, you have to do this slowly… if you currently pedal at 60rpm, trying to pedal at 90 is a huge leap, akin to going from 90rpm to 135rpm. Do easy sessions where you ride at 70rpm for 5mins at a time, and gradually build the time at that cadence up. Then once its comfy after a few rides, start again at 5mins at 75rpm.

The benefit of a higher cadence is less about energy sources and more about muscle utilisation as I understand it. You are moving the strain away from your muscular system to your aerobic. Ultimately your aerobic system has more scope, can be trained harder and adapted more than your muscle strength and resilience.

October 28, 2014 at 5:45 am #818875
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roadie69

Probably, but usually only on
Probably, but usually only on the longer climbs. They are pretty skinny too which would help.

October 28, 2014 at 4:43 am #818873
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kostya416

Airzound wrote:But LA was
Airzound wrote:
But LA was doped up to his eyeballs, so is probably not the best role model.

Well replace LA with ANY top level TdF rider (there must be at least one who was clean 👿 ). Doping or not those guys are monster riding machines and they’d leave normal human far behind no matter what state they’re in.

October 27, 2014 at 11:38 pm #818871
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Airzound

roadie69 wrote:By doing few
roadie69 wrote:
By doing few tests you might find what it the optimal cadence for you instead of trying to copy Lance Armstrong when you are not really up to that level.

But LA was doped up to his eyeballs, so is probably not the best role model.

October 27, 2014 at 11:35 pm #818869
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Airzound

The thing about cadence is
The thing about cadence is you should be able to ride the same cadence comfortably in each gear and use it to determine when you should change up or down a cog for instance if you are spinning too fast or slow. This way you can work out how long you can ride in each gear and your power output to either scalp some one, keep up with the bunch or start a break away. 😀 .

90-95 is fairly comfortable, being able to raise to 110-115 pushing on and maybe 120 for sprints.

October 27, 2014 at 11:15 pm #818867
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kostya416

roadie69 wrote:The main
roadie69 wrote:
The main concern for me is efficiency

Actually the most efficient cadence as a ratio for spent metabolic energy vs mechanical energy produced is about 60 give or take. This goes for a regular Joe Schmoe who does not have big FTP. As the Joe Schmoe progresses the FTP grows. With the increase of FTP the optimal cadence increase as well (up to a certain point of course). For world class athlete going for 1hr record (consider it as ultimate FTP test) the optimal cadence will be above 100. If the same athlete is going for 10 hr long ride then he/she can not really ride at FTP. The average power will be lower and so will the cadence. There are many studies and articles available on the Internet in regards to the topic. Google “ideal cadence” for example. By doing few tests you might find what it the optimal cadence for you instead of trying to copy Lance Armstrong when you are not really up to that level.

October 27, 2014 at 9:29 pm #818865
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roadie69

Well, it’s coming along. I
Well, it’s coming along. I did a largish climb the other day with some mates. About a 400 metres vertical. I managed to keep a cadence up of 78 average, although I was spinning at 90 for some of it.

It did feel easier, depsite getting some lactic acid build up when really spinning, but that’s probably more of a power output issue, I didn’t have a power meter on, but probably around 400 watts, so I guess that would be an issue what ever the cadence.

I’ll keep battling on with it. I’ve a 200km ‘race’ next weekend, with some nasty climbs, so will try and keep my cadence up in the hope that it’ll reduce muscle fatigue later in the ride.

One thing that is a worry was that my legs were a bit toasted after last weekends efforts with the high cadence and I’m hoping that it was just coincidental.

October 27, 2014 at 7:17 pm #818863
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Lost faith in the brand

i assume your using spds?
if
i assume your using spds?

if not thats the issue?

but also dont worry not everyone can keep that cadence, larger people (not meaning you specifically as i dont know your size but more a general statement) have a lower cadence naturally.
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