Home
"You should have something to say you know how to protect yourself" before you can ride on the road, says bereaved 19-year-old...

The sister of a woman killed by a tipper truck in London has said that cyclists should be made to pass a test before they can ride on the roads - for their own safety.

Nursing assistant Maria Karsa, 21, was cycling to St Bartholomew’s Hospital on the morning of Sunday September 15 when she was hit by a truck on the Aldgate gyratory. She was taken to Royal London Hospital and kept on life support until the evening of Sunday September 22 when the support was turned off.

Her sister, Athena Karsa, 19, a student at Manchester University, told the Evening Standard that her sister, who had only recently begun cycling to work, was unprepared for the traffic in the capital.

She said: “You have to pass tests and do courses to drive a car or motorbike, but as soon as you take the engine out anyone can do it.

“Cyclists themselves have to know basic road safety. People don’t even have to wear helmets.

“You can’t just say because it is a bike and does not have an engine you don’t need to do something. You should have something to say you know how to protect yourself. It is London. It is so busy all the time.”

No-one has been arrested in connection with the collision, and police have appealed for any witnesses to come forward.

Athena added: “I keep thinking she is at work or out with her friends. You don’t expect something like this to happen to your family.

“No one deserves it, especially not  aged 21.

“She was not a shy person and a little bit mad at times — she would do anything if you dared her. She was very funny and very carefree and kind. It has been very hard.”

Last month her boyfriend spoke of his devastation, and called for mandatory cycle awareness courses for drivers of large vehicles.

Her boyfriend, 22-year-old Tony Young told the Evening Standard: “The last week has probably been the worst experience of my life.

“It was really hard when we got the call to go to the hospital and they said what they had to do. It’s like someone just stabbed you in the chest.

“Her mum is distraught. Maria was a big part of her life.”

Tony criticised London’s authorities for promoting cycling without taking steps to protect bike riders from the dangers of motor vehicles.

“I will never ride my bike again,” he said. “They have been parading all these ways of putting people on bikes but at the same time they are not doing enough to keep us safe.

“With all the mandatory things they could have put in place, you just wonder whether it could have been different.”

The location of the collision, the Aldgate area near the start of Cycle Superhighway 2, is one of London’s most dangerous cycling black spots.

Cycling activists have been campaigning for years for changes to make it safer for cyclists. After the death of French student Philippine de Gerin-Ricard in July, Andrew Gilligan, Mayor’s cycling commissioner, announced that it would be rebuilt.

Maria Karsa was the eighth cyclist to die on London's roads so far this year. Six fatalities have involved HGVs and four of those were construction tipper trucks.

After an unpromising start, having to be bribed by her parents to learn to ride without stabilisers, Sarah became rather keener on cycling in her university years, and was eventually persuaded to upgrade to proper road cycling by the prospect of a shiny red Italian bike, which she promptly destroyed by trapping a pair of knickers in the rear derailleur. Sarah writes about about cycling every weekend on road.cc.

36 comments

Avatar
ronin [279 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Well, I started riding when I was 3 years old; my driving license (which I've held over 22 years) enables me to drive lesser powered vehicles, I even did my cycling proficiency test when I was at school.

Perhaps cycling proficiency tests should be made mandatory at schools, perhaps that may make councils take cycle road safety issues more seriously as more children will then want to cycle to school.

In a nutshell though, I think it's long been established that once you cycle on the road your life becomes cheaper in the eyes of the law and with that in mind, the rules may not always keep you safe.

Avatar
Jonny_Trousers [278 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

It's all very sad, but I think the poor girl's sister may have a point. The sheer lack of awareness by so many people I see cycling in London is terrifying. That's not at all to say that I think the cyclists in such incidences are necessarily at fault.

Avatar
Grubbythumb [61 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I understand these are the outpourings of a grieving sister, but this highlights the wider misconception that cyclists use no other form of transport.

I am a high mileage driver, and have held a full motorcycle and car licence for over 30 years, so I am more than well aquatinted with the dangers of traffic and how to try stay safe around it.

Mandatory training for children is a great idea, I did cycling proficiency at school and again with the cub scouts, and I think it is even more important to make children aware of how to stay safe these days. But please don't assume when you see me on a bike, that I need yet another test / licence.

Avatar
sean1 [177 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Another Tipper Truck incident.

I believe Tipper drivers are paid 'per load' which can only encourage poor driving.

What is needed in London ;

1. Ban large vehicles at commuter times
2. Mandatory training for tipper/HGV drivers
3. Ban 'pay per load' operation

I agree though that some education would be good for inexperienced cyclists. Any easy way would be for TFL to put together a video on YouTube. There are probably plenty already on there.

Fundamentally a cultural change is needed. Vunerable road users to be given more priority and protection on the road. Helmets & Hi-Viz is not the answer.

Avatar
Jack Osbourne snr [680 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

There is plenty of scope for cycle training for adults.

Just stand and watch any major cycle commuter route or indeed a sportive and you will see lots of expert riders but also (and increasingly in the last two years) many many people whose lack of bike handling skills, roadcraft, hazard perception and spatial awareness is immediately obvious.

Making it mandatory? Hmmmm... Maybe as a trade off against strict liability for drivers, but there are a thousand points to argue there.

Grubbythumb, I'm glad you're confident of your skills but you are just one example. I instruct adults essential cycling skills and I can assure you that I have taught experienced car drivers a lot of things they didn't know about how to ride a bike safely.

Avatar
shay cycles [402 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Cycle training is actually very useful - even for experienced cyclists.
I'd cycled over 200,000 miles before I had any kind of training and driven around 300,000 miles, yet learned plenty on an NSI course. Yes, good cycle training is great and very valuable.

Should it be in some way compulsory?

Absolutely not!

Should pedestrians have proper training before venturing onto the road? Again absolutely not!

Should all road users be aware and make themselves aware of all the other road users on the road? Of course they should.

Should blind spots and not seeing ever be accepted as an excuse?

Of course not.

Should we accept on our roads any vehicle with significant blind spots where the driver cannot see what is going on all around the vehicle?

Of course not.

Do we just carry on accepting this nonsense or do we get ourselves heard, join campaigns, write to MPs, get in the media?

You tell me .....

Avatar
scrapper [74 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I'd have to agree, but I think the cycling test would be best if it was mandatory for all road users, and a prerequisite for a motorcycle or driving license

Avatar
Doctor Fegg [148 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I'm reminded of the poor father whose daughter was killed in the Ufton Nervet train crash. He's spent the years since campaigning for seat-belts to be fitted on trains. Utterly disproportionate, but you can imagine his thought process.

The problem is motorised traffic. If we reduce car and lorry traffic, there will be fewer casualties. We do this by making the alternatives - cycle, train, bus - more attractive. Compulsory cycle training, and for that matter seat-belts on trains, will make it less attractive and for that reason need to be strongly resisted.

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde [1820 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
Grubbythumb wrote:

But please don't assume when you see me on a bike, that I need yet another test / licence.

I don't think anyone is assuming that. But there are whole generations of people out there, particularly in London that don't have a driving license, don't have a motorbike, but fancy riding a bicycle.....they may never have done cycling proficiency, or have done this in some middle of nowhere podunk town in the back of nowhere, where it is deemed a busy day if the farmer drives his tractor down the road.

It is interesting that the sister has come out and said this. I know that I am reading into events (but evidentially she seems to have cycled poorly), but it seems that the cyclists own inexperience may have led to her own sad demise. A test/series of classes are a great idea. Hopefully this may save someone's life.

People on here are usually too quick to jump on bus drivers, truck drivers and the like, but the problem out there is that there are many people who are endangering themselves unnecessarily. Bus drivers/tipper truck drivers do not want to kill anyone no matter how they are paid. Just the other day I was riding a bus when he was approaching a bicycle, when the cyclist, without looking over his shoulder, just decided to stop at a choke point (due to road works). The cyclist was lucky that the driver saw him in time. His unexplained manoeuvre almost cost him his life because he didn't consider the other road users around him....

....incidentally I think pedestrians could do some sort of test so that they don't clog up the pavement when I'm walking.

Avatar
drfabulous0 [409 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
shay cycles wrote:

Cycle training is actually very useful - even for experienced cyclists.
I'd cycled over 200,000 miles before I had any kind of training and driven around 300,000 miles, yet learned plenty on an NSI course. Yes, good cycle training is great and very valuable.

Should it be in some way compulsory?

Absolutely not!

Well I have to disagree, we have the right to cycle on the road without any license or test, it makes little sense to have no cumpulsory basic training provided as part of the national curriculum.

Quote:

Should pedestrians have proper training before venturing onto the road? Again absolutely not!

Bollocks! This training is provided by parents.

Avatar
Angus Barber [2 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

(Although I have never tried it) TFL offer cycle training through their website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx.

Avatar
Argos74 [452 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

There we go.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/bikeability/what-is-bikeability/

Put in your local authority, find lots of training providers. Lots of the training, even the advanced stuff, is free. I've been on a bike in various forms for over 30 years, starting with wobbling around a pub carpark, still think I could probably pick up a few things on awareness and road positioning.

Having said that, I do see some legal but shocking riding from inexperienced commuters. Not saying it should be compulsory, more very very useful.

Avatar
shay cycles [402 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
drfabulous0][quote=shay cycles wrote:

Well I have to disagree, we have the right to cycle on the road without any license or test, it makes little sense to have no cumpulsory basic training provided as part of the national curriculum.

Quote:

Should pedestrians have proper training before venturing onto the road? Again absolutely not!

Bollocks! This training is provided by parents.

Perhaps I should have said "formal training" rather than "proper training" - of course parents provide that informal training for pedestrians who venture onto the road, and I don't mean the pavement because many roads don't have pavements. How many of those parents even know which side of the road they should walk on? Not too many but I'd certainly not ban them as a result.

But as you say we have a right to cycle on the road and while I would support all children getting training on the curriculum I would always argue that having done, or not done, such should in no way determine whether or not you could cycle on the roads.

Avatar
andrew streit1 [26 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

29 cycled all my life, 2 recent knee operations and I have only just passed my driving test.

I was probably one of the last few that did cycling proficiency at school. It should be compulsory.

I have yet to get back on the bike because of my knee, but I know this driving malarkey will inform my cycling, so I can see the argument for incorporating more awareness of cyclists in the test itself.

As someone who is late to driving, cyclists scare the s**t out of me and reaffirms my viewpoint that they are the most vulnerable road users. It makes me also want to get more training as a cyclist.

The roads are so busy, already I want to become a more aware and proficient driver.

There aren't many people like me. Both activities are very dangerous. I am conservative and risk averse and I will do anything to reduce that. Many drivers don't have any compunction to improve their skills once they pass, and cyclists think they have a "right" to cycle without formal training. Both are beyond daft.

I laughed at my driving instructor when he said only 1-2 in every 50 do the Pass Plus. I am about to book it. Like wtf? You think you are now a competent driver? Shut up.

I spent a long while commuting in Peterborough for work. My brother has just started in Manchester. But lord alive. Even though I would consider myself a competent cyclist there is 0 chance I would consider it in London. 0 chance. If you consider cycling there daily, you would want to make yourself as safe as possible and people don't. Jumping red lights, no viz gear, going down the left hand side of larger vehicles, positioning yourself badly in all respects etc etc.

News people. A lot of people have no idea how to cycle a bike safely. The standard of driving IMO is better than the standard of cycling.

The government need to improve the training more than the infrastructure IMO. The focus is that a lot of deaths are caused by the infrastructure and it no doubt has a part to play.

A programme on the BBC a year or so back on cycling/road use showed the CCTV from this girl being killed by one of these massive tipper jobs/concrete mixers. She was cycling straight down the road and the lorry turned left across her into a side street. In my opinion both were at fault. I would have been giving him so much more room ahead of me. It was also a narrow street/ one way street as well so she should have taken up a position behind him at the very least, not in the worst possible blind spot..

The mother campaigned for more mirrors and cameras when she took shares in the company. The company has had no deaths caused by their drivers since.
It works both ways.

Avatar
sfichele [140 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Title: *BEFORE* ???

Avatar
indyjukebox [48 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
drfabulous0 wrote:

Well I have to disagree, we have the right to cycle on the road without any license or test, it makes little sense to have no cumpulsory basic training provided as part of the national curriculum.

What makes us think we have the right to cycle on the road without any licence or test? When you share the road with 5 ton+ trucks, some of the riding I see in London is shocking. I feel like pulling over some of those cyclists and giving them a slap for being so silly and endangering their lives. More than 50% of the cyclists on my route do not stop for a red light. Do we think that is ignorance or plain stupidity? 99% of motorists do stop for red lights. Which group do we think is the ignorant/arrogant lot when it comes to basic road regulations (ie stopping at red lights)? We all yap on about the ASL, but what about red lights? Pedestrian crossings? Every day I see cyclists not stopping for pedestrians, whilst cars and buses do stop!

How about accountability? For eg: last week I decided to drive into work rather than cycle, I wasn't feeling well. Whilst waiting at a traffic light a Cervelo rider decided to squeeze into the gap between me and the car in front. In the process scraping my bumper. I looked at him as soon as it happened and what did he do? No, he didn't stop to exchange details, he just rode of as fast as he could knowing full well that I could not catch up with him. Now if this was a car, I am sure all of us on this site would report it to the police. But what am I supposed to do, report a MAMIL riding a Cervelo? That is going to be easy to track down isn't it? I don't drive around with a camera in my car (or bike for that matter). Zero accountability = breaking rules and doing what you want to, knowing full well that you can escape punitive action in a busy rush hour setting.

As a group we get on out high horses and complain about poor car/truck driving. Look at it from the other side as well. There is a huge proportion of poorly trained, ignorant, arrogant cyclists who think it is their god given right to jump on a bike and ride the busy streets of London, just because they can. I am not for one moment saying that any of you per se fall into the above category, but a large proportion of cyclists do. And it is this group that worries me as a cyclist. Lets not just blame the motorists. There is a large proportion of idiots on cycles too. And unless you address both issues, you will not achieve a satisfactory solution.

Avatar
Ghedebrav [1099 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Personally I also think cycling training should be mandatory at school... however, two points:

1. There are literally hundreds of lobbyist/interest groups that petition for their thing to be made compulsory at school, from chess to financial education to Mandarin to cooking. There is only so much time in a school day/year.

2. Licensing cyclists is daft/pointless. The great majority of dangerous drivers have a licence. They've been taught to drive safely but choose not to. I don't see how the situation would be any different for cyclists (TBH my radical Daily Mail view here is that - with certain professional exemptions - you shouldn't be able to take a driving test until you're 25, which has the dual function of getting youthful braggadocio out of the way, and compelling folk to learn other ways of getting around; it would also reduce insurance premiums all round).

Avatar
andrew streit1 [26 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

100% Indybox.

Avatar
arfa [855 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I am curious as to where in London more than half the riders jump the lights ? Westminster would be my guess with some of the worst infrastructure in the busiest part of the city.
on my London commute I see a small minority of idiots and only that and get a little tired of the hyperbole which deflects from the dangerous infrastructure.

Cycle training undoubtedly could help and is available.
However, who would police mandatory licensing of cyclists ? Given our justice system couldn't give a toss about cyclists I really

Avatar
Ush [1015 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

This is a brilliant idea.

I hope that it can be followed up by making pedestrians take a test to obtain a license?

I think it's very important that we ignore the original premise behind the licensing of motorvehicles: that they are dangerous pieces of machinery that inconvenience other road users and should be restricted in use.

Ignoring this will enable us to continue to promote their use as "normal".

Hand in hand I hope that we can all agree to continue to attack cyclists as responsible for their own deaths at the hands of the operators of these machines and turn a blind eye to the evidence that over 2/3 of bicycle-car incidents have been found to be the fault of the car operator.

Thank you. I would like to leave you with a quote showing how unreasonable some of these cyclists can be, unlike you and I:

"National media outlets continue to portray “cyclists” as a homogeneous group of lawbreakers who must attain an unrealistic, ideal behavior before being granted designated room on our streets. On June 27, 2013, Canada’s National Post ran a widely circulated story that liberally tossed around the hideous word “scofflaw” yet provided no statistical evidence to back their claims that “too many” riders are disobeying the law. While these news stories continue to use anecdotal evidence to support their claims researchers are seeking the truth. A recent study conducted by Portland State University found that 94 percent of riders obeyed red lights – a fact that media outlets conveniently overlooked."
http://momentummag.com/features/can-north-america-become-civilized-cycli...

Avatar
hampstead_bandit [614 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I ride in London every day and the incompetence, stupidity and arrogance shown by many cyclists is simply breathtaking. Red light jumping, cycling on pavement, riding up one way streets, riding against oncoming traffic on wrong side of street, riding at night with no lights, wrong position on road, filtering inside moving HGV, etc.

I am not making this up. I am minded to shoot a short video showing what I see every day.

The fact that more cyclists in London are not being killed is something I don't understand based on what I see every day.

One group seems to be novices/inexperienced/Boris bikers

the other group are the arrogant twits on expensive bikes who seem to believe the law does not apply to them (these are the ones I see cycling at speed through pedestrians using green lit pedestrian crossings)

Avatar
Overweightrider [6 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

While I think compulsory training for cyclist is silly, I think cycle proficiency test should be a compulsory part of the driving test (Theory test -> Cycle test -> Practical driving test). If someone cannot handle a bike safely on the road, then he/she cannot be trusted with a motor vehicle. A lot of drivers underestimates the speed of cyclist and mistakenly believed they are always faster in a motor vehicle, when in reality many commuters can do more than 20mph.

On the other hand cyclists who break the law should be punished like any other drivers. It baffles me why so many cyclist thinks they are exempt from traffic laws. If they have a driving licence, they should get fined and points deducted for red light jumping and other traffic offences. Law breaking cyclist puts themselves in danger and give law abiding cyclist a bad name. RLJ cyclist annoys me far more when I am on my bike than when I'm in my car.

It would not be a bad idea to make cycle training part of the National curriculum in school. After all, swimming is compulsory, yet kids are far more likely to ride than to swim.

Avatar
jasecd [498 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I think the boyfriend of the victim makes a very valid point. Cycling has been pushed up the political agenda in recent years and promoted heavily through schemes such as Boris bikes, yet what is being done to keep cyclists safe?

At best there is patchy cycling infrastructure that usually gives priority to motor traffic at every junction. At worst we're forced to intermingle with traffic at horrific junctions like those at Aldgate, Bow and Holborn. Proper infrastructure takes time to develop but what is required first is commitment to develop it and that in itself is minimal.

Our leaders are quite happy to promote cycling and it's benefits, without actually having the backbone to ensure that cyclists are safe. A few hundred seriously injured or killed doesn't seem enough to take space away from motor traffic in the cities.

As for compulsory training I believe it would be massively counterproductive and impossible to police. Infrastructure and public information campaigns are the best solutions IMO.

Avatar
martib [82 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

You can give all the cycle training in the world, however it will not get away from idiots driving dangerously when behind the wheel of a vehicle. I commute 120 miles every day by car and see plenty of awful, driving from a wide varied range of drivers, including a police Inspector who was in his own private car of all people.
Whether I drive or cycle I always adopt a self preservation attitude, however having lived in Germany a number of years, the UK needs to adopt the same laws and put the onus on those who drive vehicles that injure or kill and they have the responsibility to ensure the safety of vulnerable road users, attitudes amongst car, van & lorry drivers will not change. The message from the courts needs to be a tough one, while lenient sentences are passed out or in some cases none at all, people will not take note. Irrespective of whether they need a car or not, that should not even be a consideration in these cases. Harsh yes but that is what is needed to get peoples attention and get them to act.

Avatar
PJ McNally [592 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

In a rational world this would read:

"
Sister of 21-year-old cyclist killed in London calls for truckers to have training before they are allowed onto the roads

"You should have something to say you know how to protect vulnerable people around you" before you can truck on the road, says bereaved 19-year-old
"

Avatar
alexb [162 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
andrew streit1 wrote:

A programme on the BBC a year or so back on cycling/road use showed the CCTV from this girl being killed by one of these massive tipper jobs/concrete mixers. She was cycling straight down the road and the lorry turned left across her into a side street. In my opinion both were at fault. I would have been giving him so much more room ahead of me. It was also a narrow street/ one way street as well so she should have taken up a position behind him at the very least, not in the worst possible blind spot..

The mother campaigned for more mirrors and cameras when she took shares in the company. The company has had no deaths caused by their drivers since.
It works both ways.

You're referring to Cynthia Barlow who founded Road Peace, the cyclist was her daughter Alex and the company you refer to was called Cemex.

Sadly, one of their drivers killed an off-duty chef in Mitcham lane in 2008, the news reports at the time suggested the driver turned across the path of the cyclist. http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/2197080.update_cyclist_dies_afte...

As for "taking the lane" this is fine, assuming that the driver behind you respects your right to do so, or can see you. In 2009, despite all of the safety features fitted to the cab, Eilidh Cairns was run down from behind by Joao Lopes, who wasn't wearing his glasses at the time. He received a fine and some points on his license, then in 2012 went on to kill a pedestrian with his lorry. He's now been jailed.

The law does not protect us and I for one am tired of traffic schemes which use me as part of the design to slow down cars. I don't want that for me and I don;t want that for my children. I don't want segregated facilities, I want respect from drivers reinforced by driver training and education and I want the law to back that up with some force. Drivers use the roads under license - this should be a privilege that is easily revoked, not a god-given right.

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde [1820 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
hampstead_bandit wrote:

the other group are the arrogant twits on expensive bikes who seem to believe the law does not apply to them (these are the ones I see cycling at speed through pedestrians using green lit pedestrian crossings)

Are you one of these? I just say because of your handle. But actually you've created a new breed. If I was to stereotype this group it would be something along the lines of young arrogant fixie/courier type - road rules are for schmucks.

I agree with the broad sense of what you say though.

I like the fact that the site now has 'likes'. It really helps you understand who is just being voluble and who is talking sense or a more appreciated view.....though I don't expect my respondents to necessarily like what I say, and am in no way looking for agreement.  26

Avatar
Colin Peyresourde [1820 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes
Overweightrider wrote:

While I think compulsory training for cyclist is silly, I think cycle proficiency test should be a compulsory part of the driving test (Theory test -> Cycle test -> Practical driving test). If someone cannot handle a bike safely on the road, then he/she cannot be trusted with a motor vehicle. A lot of drivers underestimates the speed of cyclist and mistakenly believed they are always faster in a motor vehicle, when in reality many commuters can do more than 20mph.

The problem with this approach is that it misses the most vulnerable cycling road user. The one that has not driven a car and has no awareness of what it is like to be a car user and the problem with blind spots, and the likelihood that drivers look for you in slow moving traffic.

Overweightrider wrote:

On the other hand cyclists who break the law should be punished like any other drivers. It baffles me why so many cyclist thinks they are exempt from traffic laws. If they have a driving licence, they should get fined and points deducted for red light jumping and other traffic offences. Law breaking cyclist puts themselves in danger and give law abiding cyclist a bad name. RLJ cyclist annoys me far more when I am on my bike than when I'm in my car.

Cyclists can easily evade car traffic and cannot be easily tracked by anyone on foot or otherwise. Laws are only any use if they are enforceable, and unless you made the job for law enforcement easier (bike registration plates) it's not going to happen.

JaseCD wrote:

I think the boyfriend of the victim makes a very valid point. Cycling has been pushed up the political agenda in recent years and promoted heavily through schemes such as Boris bikes, yet what is being done to keep cyclists safe?

At best there is patchy cycling infrastructure that usually gives priority to motor traffic at every junction.

Perhaps he too meant some sort of cycle training. You read into it what you want. She actually died where they have cycle lanes (albeit there are road work).

PJ McNally wrote:

In a rational world this would read:
"Sister of 21-year-old cyclist killed in London calls for truckers to have training before they are allowed onto the roads

"You should have something to say you know how to protect vulnerable people around you" before you can truck on the road, says bereaved 19-year-old"

Truckers do have training. Cyclists don't. It isn't rational to ask that.

Like scuba divers need a qualification to undertake an activity which puts them at risk. Or would you say they need to license the fish/water instead? If cyclists don't understand that risks of what they do then they will increase the hazards under which they put themselves. Minimise these and THEN you take on other road users, because you increase the likelihood that where incidents arise the other road user is at fault. The sister is saying this because she believes her sister made the mistake because she didn't know what she was doing, and why would she unless she had undertaken a road safety course?

If you have a three year-old using a hob and you don't show it how to cook and protect itself from the heat, do you legislate against hobs when the child gets burnt. No, you blame the parent for not instructing the child. If the hob blows up and kills people without it being used, then you legislate against hobs....it's about the risk people present themselves with. Legislation already exists about motorists and road use.

Avatar
teaboy [307 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

Have the circumstances of the crash been released yet? I haven't seen anything to say who was at fault. It would be a weird jump in logic to call for compulsory training for cyclists if the lorry was in the wrong whilst the rider had done nothing to jeopardise her safety.

I would like to see cycle training made compulsory in schools (1 course at primary level, another more advanced course at secondary), and a cycling component in the driving test too.

What's really frustrating about road safety in London is how easy it could be to create good, segregated lanes across the city - they managed to put the zil lanes in for the Olympics - but there just isn't the political desire to actually do anything of worth. How many more people need to die?

Avatar
thereverent [450 posts] 4 years ago
0 likes

I did Bikeability level 3 recently.
Most of the skills taught were about managing drivers around you who don't driver carefully around cyclists.

The driving test in the UK is far too easy and does not give the necessary tets of how to deal with vunerable road users. A cycling element first in driving lessions/test would be an improvement.

Pages