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Commuter - Carbon Belt / Alfine / Mudguards

Hi all

Is there any UK available bikes that fit the following spec :

Belt drive
Internal hub gears (Alfine / Rohloff (ouch, spendy) )
Proper mudguard fittings
Normal frame (i.e not a folder)
Road bars (ideally, but at worst, the other 3 )

I cant seem to find anything but maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Something like these, perhaps, or is there a distributor over here?

http://www.englishcycles.com/cat/custombikes/beltdrive/

Thanks

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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35 comments

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Nick0 | 9 years ago
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My 140 mile/week commuter. Not sure I can be without it now!

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/genesis/day-01-alfine-11-2013-cycloc...

Having graduated from this...

http://road.cc/content/classified/145138-charge-mixer-alfine

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localsurfer | 9 years ago
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This is pretty much what I ride, except for the belt drive. Cotic Roadrat with Alfine hub.

Really fun bike to ride, loads of fitting points for mudguards, racks, flat bars, discs.... it's a perfect commuter. I've set mine up with a dynamo hub, and it's brilliant, pretty much maintenance free.

http://cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat/#bike

Scroll down in 'complete bike specs' to see the alfine option.

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untakenname | 9 years ago
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Scott sub 10 has a belt drive plus alfine and mudguards but only comes with flat bar.

I've done a few thousand kilometres commuting through London on it and it's been fine, I repack my alfine hub every few months to keep it efficient and use atf fluid at £5 a litre instead of shimano's oil which is £80 per litre!

http://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/products/238387008/Bike-Sub-Speed-10-%...

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Nick0 replied to untakenname | 9 years ago
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I nearly bought one of these when I first started down the hub/disc route but can't abide aluminium frames, they jar the fck out of my wrists/arse/lower back (I used to have an alu bike).
I was also put off the belt option mainly by the mechanics at Velorution who told me that belts are a gimmick and less efficient than chains (as are shaft drives, the other thing I researched).
I ended up buying a Charge Mixer Alfine and converting it from flat bar to drops and Versa STI shifters - you could easily do the same - you just need these -

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/8-speed-versa-vrs8-sti-levers-for-internal-ge...

and some drop bars, they really are excellent.

p.s. service interval on the 8 speed is 1,500 miles, which is probably a bit premature, I know of one chap who passed 6,000 miles without any servicing at all before I pointed out how cheap/easy it was to do and he swears it made no difference!!

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Nick0 | 9 years ago
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Forgot to mention that I've had a fairly good offer that I'm not really in a hurry to accept so let me know if you want to test drive. It'll suit a rider of 5'7" to 5'11"

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Nick0 | 9 years ago
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Chaps this ticks all the boxes except the belt. This would be cheap to convert - check out our for yourselves if you're determined to go down that route, but I guarantee you'll want chain drive again.

http://road.cc/content/classified/142763-charge-mixer

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Mudmonkey | 9 years ago
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I've been looking at finding almost exactly the same spec and the closest I've found is the Tout Terrain X-cross. The 2015 is available with Rohloff belt drive. Also the beautiful Shand Stoater FT (but requires remortgaging). Good luck

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stockfast | 9 years ago
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How about the Spot Brand Rallye from Sideways Cycles, http://www.sidewayscycles.com/products/index.php?id=1331&clid=30 ?
I think there are mudguard mounts hidden somewhere. Otherwise the Acme or Ajax fit the bill apart from the flat bars.

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John_S | 9 years ago
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Sorry I meant to start by saying hi to the original poster edster99 but I looked in the wrong place and got the name wrong.

Sorry,

John

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John_S | 9 years ago
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Hi Bakugekiki,

Maybe something from Tout Terrain might fit the bill although they're quite expensive and so for a cheaper option perhaps something from VSF might tick most boxes for a commuter.

I think that they are both German brands but when I've searched for their bikes their do seem to be places in the UK that sell both brands.

http://www.en.tout-terrain.de

http://www.fahrradmanufaktur.de/en/index.php

Good luck finding the right bike for your commute!

John

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gmac101 | 9 years ago
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The set up for removing the actuation wire from the Shimano Alfine hub is well thought through, but having a bit of spoke or a 2mm allen key makes it easier. I carry a bottle of foam (Evans do one by Zefal) which gets me back on the road in 5 minutes or so. I then sort the puncture out at home or at lunchtime.

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Nick0 | 9 years ago
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Only thing that you need to carry in addition to your normal tool kit is indeed a 15mm spanner. I got an SKS multitool that incorporates the spanner, simples.

If you buy a bike with track drop outs, you have to de-tension the chain, the vertical drop outs (with eccentric bottom bracket) are much easier as no tension adjustment is needed, I know, I've got both.

As for one armed/sided bikes, another gimmick if you ask me!

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shutuplegz | 9 years ago
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Roadside repair of flats is an issue with hub gears but only really, as you say, due to the need to take a 15mm spanner of some sort. The problem is no worse with a belt or a chain other than with a chain you are bound to get your hands all oily during the process! The cable is easy to release from the hub and then once you have undone the locknuts either side it is pretty simple. I guess the method of tensioning the belt or chain could make the process slightly more complicated but thankfully (touches wood) I have always gone down the route of avoiding punctures and haven't yet been caught out mid-ride. I think the reason why the 'vertical' dropouts on a sliding dropout or eccentric BB frame are actually about 80degrees is so that you can release the wheel and then re-introduce the chain/belt tension without faffing with the tensioning mechanism just because you have changed the tube/tyre.

Cannondale did a BadBoy concept bike a few years ago (they may even have made a few) where they applied their 'lefty' fork concept to the rear chainstay and made it one sided. This way you can change a tyre/tube without removing the wheel!

Also, English Cycles, mentioned in your original post, have done a one sided frame and fork design which looks pretty good to me. I'm not sure if any 'run-of-the-mill' production bikes have ever done this though!

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edster99 | 9 years ago
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I'd never really cottoned on to the point about the 'belt port'. I get that now, but it does raise the question of repairing flats. Most of the bikes I've seen dont have a QR. So does that mean carry a big spanner? And can you slip the wheel out around the belt OK without major faffing about? Or do you tend to rely on avoiding punctures as much as possible? I can imagine with the width of the belt, the size of the sprocket, the length or not of the dropouts, it could be a bit fiddly.

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Nick0 | 9 years ago
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I've spoken to the mechanics at Velorution, and a couple of commuters who I spotted riding belts, and all of them said that belts were less efficient than chains. I researched the subject extensively before first buying a Charge Mixer (the one for sale in the classifieds), and was so completely sold on versa/alfine/disc braked bikes that a year later I bought an 853 tubed Genesis Day One Alfine (the one in my profile pic) as well. The Genesis replaced the Charge and has been my commuter ever since, doing 140 miles a week.

Personally I couldn't ride those kinds of distances on an aluminium bike, I know that progress has been made making alu frames that are more comfortable, but it is inherently stiff, and will never be as pliant as steel. My two pence worth!

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shutuplegz | 9 years ago
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Rear dropout spacing for hubs/discs is just standard (for a disc setup) at 135mm, but the frame needs to have a break somewhere in the drive-side rear triangle to allow belt fitment/replacement. This is often done in the seat-stay (like they seem to have done on the Canyon) or incorporated into the rear dropout assembly. The 'belt port' in the frame is the main thing that stops belt drive being a drop-in replacement for a chain on most singlespeed/hub geared bikes. Other than that there are no unusual frame requirements although Gates do have a recommended stiffness test for the rear triangle to ensure that belt alignment is not compromised by frame flex. I think that the current 'centre track' belt is more tolerant to this though. Some people have modified an existing frame to include a belt port but personally this is not something I'd want to incorporate into a brand new frame or into a frame that was not designed for it in the first place! You obviously also need a means of tensioning the belt like an Eccentric Bottom Bracket or sliding rear dropouts.

There are a few readily (in the UK) available flat bar bikes like the Canyon that would meet your needs, e.g. Revolution Shadow 14, Roux Bikes A8, Avanti Inc 3, Inc 2, Scott Sub as already mentoned, Cube Editor just to name but a few with belts..... and there are also a few hub geared drop bar road bikes (with discs but no belt) e.g. Genesis Day One as already mentioned, and the Cooper Monaco but nothing that I could find that combined belt, drops, hub and discs other than the already mentioned and slightly out of reach Shand Stoater! The Milk Bikes RDA can be had in flat bar or drop bar flavours and comes out a bit cheaper than the Shand but the frame geometry was a bit too 'hybrid' like for my needs. Really nice commuting bike all the same though.

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edster99 | 9 years ago
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Food for thought. I never realised there was quite so much going on in that bit of the bike world. Now I am more confused than ever  1

Did that Ti frame have some belt drive specific shape? I'm unclear if the belt / the hub with discs requires wider dropout spacing on the rear.

I like the look of the Canyon, even though I am still interested in drops.

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Nick0 | 9 years ago
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Forget the belt drive; they are inefficient when compared to chain, if they weren't we'd all be riding them (same goes for shaft drive). Also forget Di2; heavier than cable and ridiculously expensive and why do you want to rely on batteries to use your bike! Rohloff is very expensive and you can't have STi style integrated brake/shifters.

So that leaves Alfine and Versa changers - both are seriously excellent, so much so in fact that I've got two disc braked Alfine/Versa change bikes, and forgive the shameless punt but I'm selling one of them over in the classified section. If you're around 5'10" then it could be the bike for you. Check it out at

http://road.cc/classified-ads

and let me know if you'd like any more information, I am losing a bundle selling it but if you come over for a test ride you'll understand why - I can only just move get from one end of the garage to the other!

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shutuplegz replied to Nick0 | 9 years ago
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Nick0 wrote:

Forget the belt drive; they are inefficient when compared to chain, if they weren't we'd all be riding them (same goes for shaft drive). Also forget Di2; heavier than cable and ridiculously expensive and why do you want to rely on batteries to use your bike! Rohloff is very expensive and you can't have STi style integrated brake/shifters.

So that leaves Alfine and Versa changers - both are seriously excellent, so much so in fact that I've got two disc braked Alfine/Versa change bikes, and forgive the shameless punt but I'm selling one of them over in the classified section. If you're around 5'10" then it could be the bike for you. Check it out at

http://road.cc/classified-ads

and let me know if you'd like any more information, I am losing a bundle selling it but if you come over for a test ride you'll understand why - I can only just move get from one end of the garage to the other!

In real world conditions any differences in efficiency between belt and traditional chain are imperceptible. All published data I've ever read makes it clear that the chain system has to be in perfect wear/lubrication conditions to better the belt drive system. My 'weekend' bikes might be kept in something getting close to perfect condition but my commuter certainly isnt! Also the belt system will last longer and not require the same level of maintenance as the chain system. I have good experience of belt drive on a touring bike and think for certain applications (like touring and commuting, where reliability and low maintenance are a high priority) it is a fantastic option, hence why I am moving over to belt drive for my commuting bike now too.

I guess the reasons we aren't all riding them are that we don't all want to ride singlespeed or hub geared bikes all the time (me included!) also that the frame designers might struggle with the belt port in many frame types and also that the cycling world is generally quite conservative - look at the resistance to fitting disc brakes to road bikes! In continental Europe, belt drive bikes are much more common.

I'm with you on the Rohloff versus Alfine cost/value comparison though. I think that the Alfine 8spd or 11spd hubs are great and do give slightly better shifting options. The Versa lever setup is the best I've come across yet for use with drops and cable discs (which are lower maintenance than hydraulics but almost as powerful these days) but I can't help thinking that if Shimano themselves produced a drop-bar mechanical lever assembly it would be somewhat better quality than the Versa one! I too can't see the point of the Alfine Di2 system. Preventing missed shifts on a derailleur setup is no doubt a good selling point but I've never experienced a missed shift on my Alfine 8 and 11spd hubs! Also the motor adds even more weight at the back wheel (not to mention the extra battery weight).

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Al__S | 9 years ago
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if you want to get round the issue of the drop levers, Alfine does come in a Di2 flavour. For even more ££££

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rjfrussell | 9 years ago
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Thorn?

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shutuplegz | 9 years ago
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Forgot to mention, if you go to the gates carbon drive website there is a really comprehensive list of all manufacturers who use their belts. There were some names in there that I'd never heard of, including a couple of low volume UK based specialists (I forget the names) with some really nice drop bar bikes but sadly out of my price range! Also found the Spot Brand Rallye via this list - also pricey and no mudguard provision but a nice looking bike!

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bobinski | 9 years ago
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I might be able to help with parts for a build if you are interested? i have an Alfine 11 hub built up in a wheel the details of which i can get, a front sinilarly specced wheel with a deore dynamo hub, Chainset and versa shifters with all cables. The wheels would come with 25mm gatorskins. I also have an On One pompetamine frame, white in medium. Oh, and a white 90cm stem but no spare road bars.

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shutuplegz | 9 years ago
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I've been doing exactly the same search recently. The Shand Stoater came closest to my spec apart from price! Plus the fact that it has the Rolhoff hub whereas I really wanted the Shimano Alfine 8spd or 11spd hub having had much more experience of them.

In the end I decided that there wasn't a bike out there that met my very niche requirements for a super commuter so I have ended up building up my own! Picked up a bargain belt drive flat bar hybrid from which all the running gear will be used and am in the process of getting a Ti road frame direct from China. End resut will be an 'uber commuter' low maintenance road bike with drops, belt drive, Alfine 11spd, cable discs (not hyds) and full mudguard/rack mounts.

I did make a list of all the flat bar belt drive bikes I could find if you are still interested in something without the road bars?

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hsiaolc | 9 years ago
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parksey | 9 years ago
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Scott Sub 10?

Flat bar, plus the colour is a bit challenging, but it's relatively affordable.

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PonteD | 9 years ago
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What about the genesis day one alfine?

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/urban/urban-cross/day-one-alfine-8

It has a chain though rather than a belt but it ticks every other box.

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edster99 | 9 years ago
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That is a lovely looking bike gmac. When you say saving for 'a while' - I think you mean the rest of this decade!!

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gmac101 | 9 years ago
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http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/stoater-rohloff/

Ticks all your boxes - but you might have to save for a while

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edster99 | 9 years ago
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thanks chaps/esses

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