[steve@mycrocamuk.co.uk]

Hi All

My name is Steve from Techalogic safety cameras.. we focus on road safety cameras for motorcyclists, horse riders and of course CYCLISTS. Camera tech is our passion.

I am keen cyclist myself and have set myself a goal in 2022 to develop the perfect front and rear cameras for cycling. Its probably even more important to have a camera on your bike than in your car in my opinion. There are very few dedicated cycling cameras.

This really is a blank sheet of paper and the goal is to design, build and launch the prefect camera for cyclists needs.. So I thought that Roadcc forum members would be the best place to get some great ideas on what features and benefits cyclists really need..

I don’t want to lead in with questions but would really appreciate it if you can feedback your ideas on the design, look and feel, mountings and all the features (like battery life, stability, Video Quality) that is important to you..

We would really appreciate you help and when the camera is launched will make a great half price offer for all Roadcc forum members that helped with the development.

Kind Regards

Steve

Topic

[HoarseMann]

Bungle_52 wrote:

For commuting my priority is plate recognition in low light

This is the key missing feature from all bike cameras available today.

It’s missing because most are being sold as ‘action cameras’ for capturing vlog worthy video, rather than ‘safety cameras’ for capturing evidence (even Cycliq are guilty of this).

It’s not hard to find the answer. Just look at any ANPR camera (Hikvision, Petards, etc.), do they have the latest high-res, high dynamic range, backlit sensor? Nope, they have a black & white sensor and active illumination (usually with infrared light in the non-visible spectrum).

A B&W sensor uses the whole pixel to capture light. A Colour sensor has to split that pixel three ways and light has to pass through IR and colour filters, reducing intensity prior to even hitting it. Numberplates in the UK are reflective and will throw back any light you aim at them.

[Sriracha]

Maybe you’re missing the
A CMOS sensor is not so different from a piece of film, both are just a mosaic of buckets that fill up with photons in proportion to the image brightness falling upon them. To capture a moving image on film each frame requires a whole new piece of film. With a CMOS chip the buckets just all get emptied each time to give a fresh slate, the photons are counted before they are emptied and the numbers are recorded as a digital frame.

Regardless of how you capture the image, to freeze subject motion and hence eliminate blur you must have a very short capture time. Otherwise the same location on the subject is smeared across multiple locations on the frame. Other things being equal, to capture the necessary number of photons over a shorter period of time requires a brighter subject (ie a greater rate of photons admitted over a shorter window of time). And yes, it is still frames, digital or otherwise.

[hawkinspeter]

ajft wrote:

I’ve got one of the first gen. Cycliq 12 front camera/lights and as far as I’m concerned its been an expensive paperweight most of its life. If I get another camera, requirements would be

– software needs to work on Android, not just iPhone and “we’ll get Android working later”

– camera needs to show when its recording, rather than let you find out three hours later when you pull the SD card out to find it didn’t save anything

– if it has a light then the light needs to work, always, every time, not be tied in to the firmware of the camera so that if (when) the camera hangs and half bricks itself you’re stuck out somewhere at night with no light

– mechanically balanced on the mount so it doesn’t spend its entire life gradually tipping forward or back due to battery weight, causing you to be continuously tightening the  mount screw, then eventually stripping the mount threads so it doesn’t work & needs to be tied on with a bungy strap

– headlight beam that doesn’t piss off anyone heading towards you

– usb-c charging

– camera that doesn’t tell you that 75% of class 10 SD cards are “corrupt” after anywhere from 30minutes to 6weeks use

I’ve got a first gen Cycliq 12 (from their KickStarter IIRC) too and it’s surprisingly still going strong (though it rattles a bit from numerous drops onto concrete and I glued the front bit back on).

The android software is a bit crap, but you don’t really need it – the biggest issue I have is with time synchronisation.

Haven’t had an issue with not knowing that the camera is on – I know its turn on beeps and turn off beeps now.

When it goes into brick mode and won’t turn on, you can easily get it working by poking a paperclip into the tiny reset hole in the back (next to the SD slot?).

Mounting it upside down seems to have solved any issues with it changing angle and haven’t noticed issues with the light beam.

I’ve maybe gone through 2 or three SD cards in however many years I’ve been using it.

[Awavey]

but in the digital world its

but in the digital world its not really about capturing frames anymore, its all to do with light hitting a CMOS sensor chip, and the quality of the CMOS sensor chip that captures the photons of light and then the conversion process of that into a digital value is key.

Cheap cameras tend to have cheap sensor chips and a conversion process that leads to poor quality images, especially under low light levels because they struggle to pick up the change across the pixels which leads to a blurring effect.

some more expensive cameras have more expensive sensor chips, but are let down by a poor conversion process which might just be because theyve tailored the end footage to look a certain way, which isnt ideal for capturing numberplates in the dark, but is great for skiing down a mountainside and looking visually impressive.

ultimately it all comes down to the sensor chip & what price point the camera aims at completely fixes the quality of that chip you will get.

[Sriracha]

Getting the number plate is
Getting the number plate is the key problem. Subject movement blur seems to be the usual problem, and that can only be fixed by short shutter times. When ambient light is low, that’s difficult.

I wonder whether it could be solved by synchronising about 2 fames each second with a burst of flash light, at the highest possible shutter speed. With number plates being retroreflective they will be bright under the flash illumination, and should be correctly exposed at the commensurately short exposure time, with movement blur eliminated.

The rest of the frame may well be totally underexposed, but who cares? The dynamic range necessary to get reflective plates and the rest of the scene both correctly exposed is doubtless lacking in any case. The remaining frames will capture the scene.

The light flashing at 2Hz will double as a visibility aid.

The same scheme could work on a simpler unit without a built in light, with the proviso that the cyclists runs a front light on constant beam, positioned close to the camera.

Watching the footage might be unpleasant with two frames every second underexposed. However I would think that desktop software with some AI smarts could reconstitute the exposure using the adjacent frames.

[Bungle_52]

I doubt the perfect camera

I doubt the perfect camera can be made and so here are some observations.

For commuting my priority is plate recognition in low light and removable battery with 2 hours battery life and a separate charger. Easily removable from mount as bike will be left unattended.

For longer leisure rides battery life is the most important attribute for me. I tend to do longer rides in good weather.

OK to combine rear camera with a light but not the front.

Not interested in loop recording or emergency write protecting files as I always view and download incidents when I get home and large capacity cards are relatively cheap now. Ease of formatting the card in camera I would find useful for the rare occasions when there is nothing worth viewing.

Don’t need a screen. A small LCD display that can be used to change settings like the front gopro ones would be useful but I’d be happy to use a PC app to do the settings if it reduced cost and made it easier to waterproof. Or do we need settings at all. 1080 at 60fps would seem to be adequate for what we need so one button to start and stop recording may be enough.

The major issue that no one seems to be able to crack is low light performance so the ability to record a spoken plate reliably may be an alternative. This would probably mean some sort of external mic which could be worn or one directed straight at the rider from where the camera is mounted.

It seems that a 1″ sensor is now available with claimed better low light performance but the cameras cost around £500. If the cost comes down it may be worth looking into.

[ajft]

I’ve got one of the first gen

I’ve got one of the first gen. Cycliq 12 front camera/lights and as far as I’m concerned its been an expensive paperweight most of its life. If I get another camera, requirements would be

– software needs to work on Android, not just iPhone and “we’ll get Android working later”

– camera needs to show when its recording, rather than let you find out three hours later when you pull the SD card out to find it didn’t save anything

– if it has a light then the light needs to work, always, every time, not be tied in to the firmware of the camera so that if (when) the camera hangs and half bricks itself you’re stuck out somewhere at night with no light

– mechanically balanced on the mount so it doesn’t spend its entire life gradually tipping forward or back due to battery weight, causing you to be continuously tightening the  mount screw, then eventually stripping the mount threads so it doesn’t work & needs to be tied on with a bungy strap

– headlight beam that doesn’t piss off anyone heading towards you

– usb-c charging

– camera that doesn’t tell you that 75% of class 10 SD cards are “corrupt” after anywhere from 30minutes to 6weeks use

[Fifth Gear]

Most cameras are far too

Most cameras are far too complicated with options that nobody wants and they have a tendency to malfunction.

I want a simple reliable camera with at least 3 hours battery life to record my ride so I can make a video of any incidents. The Contour Roam was perfect for a helmet camera with 3 hours battery life. I have had two for nine years and both still work perfectly but battery life is now down to one hour. The Drift Ghost replaced them with 5 hours battery life but malfunctions frequently and has far too many complicated options. So I want simplicity, reliability, battery life well over what GoPro offer, and good picture quality at 720/60. The camera needs a helmet strap or rugged bar or seat post mount.

[Flintshire Boy]

Amen.

Amen.

[Oldfatgit]

Image stabilization through
Image stabilization through at least 8 axis.
Big buttons that can be used through gloves
Separate file lock button that locks previous 2, current and next 3 segments; auto sense potential alarm events such as sudden deceleration followed by sudden angle change
Selectable segment length
Auto write over old files
Minimum 128gb SD / micro SD storage
Removable battery with sensibly priced spares
Minimum 8 hours run / record time
On board GPS that can be utilised by 3rd party apps
Decent editing software that allows picture in picture as well as configurable data sets
Pairing between front and rear units … Turn one on, and they both turn on.
Synchronised frame rates between paired units
Ability to use with a powerbank on the fly

[ktache]

I’d like a nice simple

I’d like a nice simple tubular unit that had a bit if a barrel that would fit perfectly in my exposure helmet mount. Just front facing, less worried about the rear, though if you could do both in a neat way that might work.

[hawkinspeter]

Captain Badger wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Just one more thing…

……

[Captain Badger]

hawkinspeter wrote:

Just one more thing…

……

[hawkinspeter]

Just one more thing…

Just one more thing…

Glass lenses – especially for the rear where bits of grit may get thrown up at it and make a plastic lens go a bit cloudy over time.

[GMBasix]

By the way, Steve, thank you

By the way, Steve, thank you for asking.

[Author]

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