[OldRidgeback]

Imagine my surprise when riding home from a training session at Peckham BMX when I was not close passed by an Audi at the junction with Camberwell Road. The driver overtook but was turning left in front of me. He stayed in the other lane and I could see him turning round to see he was giving me plenty of space as he crossed in front of me. As I crossed Camberwell New Road the driver of a black BMW stopped and let me cross in fron of him. Moments later, the driver of a Volvo SUV about to cross my path saw me and stopped and waved me on. Then a nice lady in a rather battered Renault trundled along behind me as I passed Myatt’s fields and waited until the road was nice and wide and then gave me 2m or so as she overtook.

Some drivers are actually ok.

Topic

[wtjs]

I have reviewed these

I have reviewed these submissions and further action will be taken against the driver of the vehicles in the form of a fixed penalty notice

I have never achieved a FPN for a close passing offence in Lancashire, and I suspect nobody else has either. Neither do they do anything else. You have seen WU59 UMH before. No VED, insurance or MOT for over 6 years. This is an MOT test of 23rd September- I saw him again on the A6 on Sunday 1st October at 10:12

[Simon E]

Cycloid wrote:

Cycloid wrote:

The problem is that to the the cyclist on the receiving end all this is irrelevant, and I’m P*****d off with playing psychological mind games when I should be enjoying a bike ride. It’s type 2) that really scare me.

I’d lump 1 & 2 together, they’re not reasonable if they give 12″ of room,  that’s incompetent.

It’s no. 3 that bothers me, the arsehole that is looking for a fight.

As others have said, most drivers I encounter are generally patient and considerate. The most considerate are people in small cars. SUVs and German brands are a mixed bag along with larger vans and commercial vehicles. Most PSV and HGV drivers are above average but when I hear something approaching from behind and it sounds like it’s sizeable and they’re moving quickly then I brace myself for a close one. It’s the same when walking on local lanes without a pavement.

[Cycloid]

I agree with your point.

I agree with your point.

I divide close passes / near misses into three driver categories.

1) Perfectly reasonable driver, who does not see a problem. “I’m a competent driver. You look like an experienced cyclist. Twelve inches is fine”

2) The incompetent driver who doesn’t look, can’t judge speed or distance.

3) The aggressive driver who wants to scare you. May want to run you off the road, but probably does not want a collision.

The problem is that to the the cyclist on the receiving end all this is irrelevant, and I’m P*****d off with playing psychological mind games when I should be enjoying a bike ride. It’s type 2) that really scare me.

[Cycloid]

I was going to say – “Those

I was going to say – “Those are my numbers which I just made up” Everyone has a personal experience on the roads. Yours will be different from mine, but I think we are both making a similar argument.

[Mr Hoopdriver]

Real world evidence of the

Real world evidence of the site still being broken.

[Daveyraveygravey]

Cycloid wrote:

99.9% of Drivers are “OK”.

The problem is, just based on statistical probability I meet the one in a thousand every time I go out.

I was going to say “Same here, but I meet them every time I go out every few miles.”  But I would say less than 50% are ok.  Most drivers only give cyclists room because they don’t want their precious paintwork damaged by something nasty and metallic like a push-bike.

Nobody works on their driving, nobody tries to get better.  Hardly any even slow down when it’s raining!

[Cugel]

hawkinspeter wrote:

The majority of drivers do want to be safe and considerate, but too many of them don’t realise the problems with not leaving enough space around vulnerable traffic.

There are all sorts of driving sins. Some are deliberately performed, such as close-passes, speeding beyond the ability to deal with the unforseen and so forth. But there are many times that number of driving sins that are due to the incompetance of drivers. The latter don’t intend harms; and, unlike the loons, do care about doing harm unintentionally. But ….

From the point of view of the victims, the harm done to them is what matters most. Being crushed and having your onward life hugely degraded by a nice fellow who was just inept at driving is as bad as if the crusher was a car loon who also eats live puppies and beats his mother for fun.

Our justice system (such as it is) pays far too much attention to intent. As a result, those who do serious damage to others “accidently” are let off without victims being recompensed for the incompetance of those who damaged them. But when freedom to be incompetant is widespread, so are “accidents”.

In some other justice systems, those who harm another must pay recompense no matter what their intents or lack of them. Incompetance, from the victim’s point of view, is just as damaging as an evil intent. A judge might add to the penalty if there’s evil intent too, as a protection against others being subject to deliberate loon acts by the loon in question.

But surely all victims should be awarded a real recompense from the person who damaged them if that damage was avoidable by way of the damager becoming competant, and acting as such, before going out to indulge in a potentially dangerous activity?

Penalties should also seek to dissuade the incompetant from assuming, or pretending, or not actioning, competance. If you’re incompetant with a car to the extent that you’re a serious risk to others, you should be banned from accessing one. Ditto for chainsaws, dog-owning and even riding a bike – although in each case the competance required (and measured) should be related to the potential damages of incompetance.

Personally I’d require tests and licenses for a lot more than cars. And serious re-checking of competance for the more dangerous stuff, such as driving a motorised vehicle. This will be regarded as a nanny state …. which it is. But infantile people need their nanny. When we all grow up (ha!) perhaps more general freedoms could be justified. At present, far too many infantile adults have far too much freedom; and we use it to do some very bad stuff to each other.

 

[Cycloid]

99.9% of Drivers are “OK”.

99.9% of Drivers are “OK”.

The problem is, just based on statistical probability I meet the one in a thousand every time I go out.

[lonpfrb]

HoldingOn wrote:

HoldingOn wrote:

There was even a driver of a very distinctive car, that I reported for a close pass and the police took action (probably an educational course, but I don’t know for sure), who subsequently passed me a couple of months later and actually waited for a gap and moved completely to the other side of the road to overtake.

Real world evidence of changing behaviour!
?

[lonpfrb]

HoldingOn wrote:

HoldingOn wrote:

There was even a driver of a very distinctive car, that I reported for a close pass and the police took action (probably an educational course, but I don’t know for sure), who subsequently passed me a couple of months later and actually waited for a gap and moved completely to the other side of the road to overtake.

Real world evidence of changing behaviour!
?

[lonpfrb]

HoldingOn wrote:

HoldingOn wrote:

There was even a driver of a very distinctive car, that I reported for a close pass and the police took action (probably an educational course, but I don’t know for sure), who subsequently passed me a couple of months later and actually waited for a gap and moved completely to the other side of the road to overtake.

Real world evidence of changing behaviour!
?

[lonpfrb]

hawkinspeter wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

The majority of drivers do want to be safe and considerate, but too many of them don’t realise the problems with not leaving enough space around vulnerable traffic.

The IAM research shows that the more modes of transport have been operated the better the understanding and safer the behaviour.

The improved standard mirror fitment to HGV being a good example to remove blind spots so enable safer operation.

“If you can’t see my mirrors I can’t see you ” not being a big enough clue for some people!

[hawkinspeter]

The majority of drivers do

The majority of drivers do want to be safe and considerate, but too many of them don’t realise the problems with not leaving enough space around vulnerable traffic.

[HoldingOn]

In my experience (and my

In my experience (and my experience with people in general) the large majority of are okay. Some are more aware than others, but mostly they are ok.

There was even a driver of a very distinctive car, that I reported for a close pass and the police took action (probably an educational course, but I don’t know for sure), who subsequently passed me a couple of months later and actually waited for a gap and moved completely to the other side of the road to overtake.

[Author]

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