[Shades]

Have a mate who is part of our wider cycling gang; he’s taken early retirement and heard he was really frustrated with the Covid restrictions as he has a small holiday flat in Germany and can’t pursue his various plans.  My comment was why hadn’t he gone out on some long rides etc; then I was told he’d stopped, because he was sick of UK roads (safety), and was just going to cycle when he’s out in Germany (which he always raves about).  I was initially bemused but then, having almost being totalled on 2 rides recently (oncoming driver speeding on a lane and another speeding/not paying attention whilst I was trying to turn right off an A road; I’ve really lost my nerve when trying that manoeuvre), I kind of sympathised.  Realised that pre-WFH etc a lot of my miles were commuting on the Bristol/Bath bike path and quiet urban roads, so I was probably slightly cossetted.  I generally steer clear of A roads but, mid-week especially, the roads are like the wild-west post lockdown.  Apart from group rides I’ve now got front/back cameras so I could hardly criticise my mate for just being aware of his own mortality.

Topic

[Captain Badger]

giff77 wrote:

I’m not entirely happy with the thinking that vulnerable road users be treated as ‘hazzards’. To me it only reinforces the negative point of view that a considerable number of motorists have towards those who opt for active travel. 

You are absolutely correct. The most commonly used definition of hazard in H&S terms is:

‘A Hazard is a potential source of harm or adverse health effect on a person or persons’

This definition clearly cannot apply to vulnerable road users when viewed from the driver’s seat. From a driver’s perspective vulnerable road users are most definitely not hazards, as the driver is not at risk. In fact when we drive we are the hazard, and a serious one at that. It is this form of thinking that needs to be hammered home when training new drivers, retraining existing drivers, and indeed when deciding wider road policy.

Of course it does matter on perspective – from a peds point of view a cyclist may be considered a hazard, albeit a minor one ( the likelihood of harm is small, as is the likely seriousness of that harm), which we must remember when in the saddle, and most of us do, if only for that fact that when things go wrong we get hurt too.

To me all driving matters should fall under Health and safety laws, as they are currently the most appropriate legislation to deal the regulation required re training, licencing, risk assessment etc – most drivers that pose a serious risk aren’t deliberately dangerous, just incompetent, but in H&S terms that would mean that they aren’t allowed to drive.

This doesn’t mean that RTA is redundant, there is no reason that the two acts can’t run in parallel. They most certainly do when applied to commercial activity, and there is little contradiction as the RTA applies to specific behaviour on the road, whereas HASAW applies to planning and control. Without the latter the former is merely a sticking plaster.

 

 

[wycombewheeler]

I agree with not classifying

I agree with not classifying cyclists as hazards, cyclists do not generally do unpredictable things, they are just road users going about their business, might as well flag up every single other car as a hazard. 

They don’t require the same level of attention as children or animals, just a reasonable amount of space and some patience.

If only the driving instruction would highlight that not only do they have a right to be there, they are unlikely to cause any significant change in your arrival time at your destination, as most drivers end up in the same queue they would have been in once they pass the cyclist. In urban areas it’s likely they could follow the cyclist to that same queue.

[peted76]

I know many people who choose

I know many people who choose not to ride on roads and stay off-road due to safety concerns. Around Warwickshire we’re blessed with some beautiful countryside and mostly ‘reasonable’ish’ tarmac (in comparison to other places in the UK I’ve ridden). Sometimes it seems there are hoards of happy cyclists out and about and I can see why that might mean more frustrated entitled drivers. 

I think I must average 1:1 ratio, rides to dickheads.. at least. Earlier this year I had an exceptional morning which genuinely shook me and made me just want to get home, very close passes, abuse, being driven at head on on narrow lanes, squeezed into a verge it was the worst ride ever, maybe six or more individual incidents which scared me.

[giff77]

I’m not entirely happy with

I’m not entirely happy with the thinking that vulnerable road users be treated as ‘hazzards’. To me it only reinforces the negative point of view that a considerable number of motorists have towards those who opt for active travel. The old driving licence in Northern Ireland had the words Care Consideration and Courtesy printed on it. I’m not even sure if instructors today reinforce these values to their students. When I learnt to drive over thirty years ago my instructor as well as my dad went to great pains to drum into me that cyclists had every right to be on the road and that I was to respect that right and to afford them every courtesy to ensure their safety. When we look at nations with a high modal share for cycling/walking we find that motorists will always give them space simply because they’ve been taught to and the laws protect the vulnerable. The attitudes of motorists towards cyclists in the U.K. are appalling to say the least. I was following a thread on another site where the contributor admitted to knocking a cyclist down and how awful he felt and that it was a result of a moment of inattenttion. The resulting comments basically were congratulating him for hitting another road user. I thought I’d seen it all but this took the biscuit. 

[stonojnr]

Depends on the bit of Suffolk
Depends on the bit of Suffolk you ride in, Ipswich is fairly rubbish & hostile to cycle in most of the time & there are plenty of roads you’d avoid cycling on in some parts of the county,but then you can easily ride to places where you feel like you are literally the only person for miles around.

[Dave Dave]

“The tragic irony is that a

“The tragic irony is that a proportion of those people are the dangerous drivers that make the roads a dangerous environment for vulnerable road users.”

It’s not even irony, just tragedy. They haven’t been trained to drive as well as is necessary. It’s not even that hard. Bikes need to be regarded as hazards, like kids playing ball on the pavement, or passing a school at letting-out time. As soon as it’s filed in the part of the brain that says ‘this needs attention’, rather than the bit that says ‘avoid the road furniture’, even the terrible drivers will be close to acceptable.

I have seen a lot more people doing so than used to be the case. But if it’s not 100%, it isn’t good enough.

[Dave Dave]

“As a car driver I routinely

“As a car driver I routinely see awful driving pretty much every day”

That definitely has a lot to do with my attitude. I see people who can’t manage basics like driving along a straight road, let alone turning right or using roundabouts.

I’ve been behind someone who was driving a Fiat 500 behind a bus, and the bus went through a gap wide enough there was no need to slow down at all, and the 500 driver slammed on the brakes. FFS, basic common sense, even if you don’t know how wide your car is, a bus could fit through that gap – and just did. 

Given the prevalence of drivers who think they’re being nice by letting in one car from a side street, without noticing the fifteen cars behind them they’re holding up, it’s clear there are large numbers of drivers who never see anything behind their A-pillar.

The same effect explains a lot of close passes, etc – drivers see a cyclist, and then forget about them as soon as the cyclist is behind the A-pillar. Having ridden a tandem, which apparently is unusual enough in London that even black cab drivers would stop and let you out so they could have a gawk, it didn’t happen with that – clearly drivers actually noticed us for once, instead of being filed under ‘obstacle to avoid’ by the bit of our brain that automates most parts of driving. (That automation of stuff like steering, changing gear, and so-on frees up the brain to either concentrate on doing those things appropriately, or to text, tell your kids off, etc…)

I think cyclists are taking their lives in their hands whenever they mix with traffic. It is just about possible to be safe, if you really know what you’re doing, you’re hyper-alert, and conditions are perfect. No pilot would fly if those were the required conditions for safe flight.

I should mention that I think people who ride motorcycles in the UK (on road) are completely insane. That’s my standard for acceptable risk. You may accept more risk, but do be aware of how much risk is involved, rather than pooh-poohing it.

[Shades]

My lane speedster stopped

My lane speedster stopped around the corner; whether it was out of guilt or to check they hadn’t hit me I don’t know as I just cycled on as I couldn’t bear one of those pointless conversations/disagreements that ensue.  I’m in my metal box therefore I’m superior and wiser than all other road users!

[Daveyraveygravey]

I’m lucky enough to live near

I’m lucky enough to live near Steyning in the South Downs so have the choice of almost unlimited off road trails and some pretty quiet roads to ride on.  I do about the same time on each, but because my mtb is ancient and heavy it’s slower, so the distances are less.

I don’t think drivers are any better or worse than before lockdown.  Some of them take the time and care to pass you properly, some of them only avoid running you over because they don’t want to scratch their cars, and most are in between.  

I do think more about the type of roads I am using, and the time of day I use them.  I personally think the close pass on a relaxing Sunday morning ride is less forgiveable than during rush hour.  Why do drivers take risks when presumably they aren’t in a rush to get to work?

About a year ago, on a narrow country lane, an oncoming car deliberately forced me off the road, I punctured and crashed.  And it was raining.  The scumbag stopped about 50m up the road, but as soon as I started to get up, he sped off.  I then bought a cheap camera to use, but it is close to useless on all but perfect days at gentle speeds on smooth roads.  The battery only lasted just over an hour, and as most of my rides are longer than that, I was always wondering which bit of the ride to film in case a nutter tried to kill me.  I also didn’t lime spending time viewing the footage, and editing it if anything was worth while.  For me, the camera was taking away some of the fun of riding.

[Dinsdale81]

Its funny how different

Its funny how different people have different perspectives. The group of lads I ride with and I were just commenting on Saturday about how much nicer the drivers seem to be this year? 

I don’t know if it is a geographical thing (we are Suffolk based) but all the drivers seem to be more courteous & give us plenty of space if possible.

We always as a matter of course go to single file when drivers approach and always give them a friendly thumbs up if they wait to pass us. I don’t know if that has helped? 

My commutes into work on the busier roads is always a bit more stressful, but even then, they feel more forgiving then they did last year. 

Only ever had one bad instance where a driver in a Land Rover to exception to us being on the road and steered into us….then got out of the car and started remonstrating with us. Though, he soon changed his tune when a) he realised how many of us there were and b) most of my mates and riding companions are in the police force.

iIknow it is is different for everyone but it really feels, for us at least, that the roads might be a little bit safer??? *Touches wood*

[Shades]

That’s sad; maybe gravel is

That’s sad; maybe gravel is the answer to make a ride more traffic-free.  I only really got my bike out properly in Mar due to a bout of Covid and poor weather; I think I’ve had 1 road rage incident (on the MTB heading to a bridleway!) and 3 significant near-misses (I submitted footage to the police on one) and plenty of just annoying altercations since then.

[kil0ran]

I ran a camera for a while

I ran a camera for a while and all it taught me was that I was within inches of death several times per ride (this was when I was commuting into Southampton). It was also the time when Hants Police weren’t interested in acting on camera footage.

As a car driver I routinely see awful driving pretty much every day and it’s just exhausting. Case in point – one lane closure on an oblique junction near home, clearly signposted and fully coned (they’re digging a trench for a gas main). Diversion adds two minutes the the journey. Driver decides to risk nipping past the lane closure on the wrong side of the road, having mounted the pavement to make the sharp turn, resulting in stalemate with an oncoming driver (who had nowhere to go because there was a car behind his) and much swearing and honking of horns. I’d imagine if it had been a cyclist oncoming, or a child on scooter on the pavement, he’d have just driven at them. Appropriately enough, a white Audi S3…

[Shades]

Agree; there’s a really

Agree; there’s a really sinister human right/sense of entitlement attitude associated with UK driving these days; almost a bit like gun ownership in the USA.  Asked a mate who was in the US for 3 years why he didn’t commute by bike; his response was that it wasn’t advisable as the motorists attitude was that you shouldn’t be on the road.  He had to travel to places (national parks etc; roads and trails) where you could cycle peacefully.  Almost feels like that’s where we heading here.

[Shades]

Commuting time always brings

Commuting time always brings out the real nutter drivers; my near-miss on a lane was someone rat-running.  Irony was it’s a National Cycle Route!

[Mungecrundle]

There are 2 pieces of

There are 2 pieces of equipment that I would turn back for should I have forgotten them and was more than 5 minutes into a ride of any duration. My gloves and at least a rear facing camera.

The roads are only dangerous due to the tiny but significant minority of motorists who are either fundamentally incompetent at driving or who apparently see punishing any cyclist they come across for infractions imagined or real or even just for having the cheek to cycle on the public highway, as their God given duty.

This sort of behaviour is all too common: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1Rnwjzdl4 and it is condoned regularly by vicious arsehats in main stream media looking for new victims to bully in an age of protected characteristics.

[Author]

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