[AndyIT]

Came across such a group today and wondered what people’s views were. Personally I think they should have split into 2,groups on busier roads.

Topic

[quiff]

Yes, beginning to think so.

Yes, beginning to think so.

[brooksby]

I don’t know why, but I was

I don’t know why, but I was drawn to reading this article again after reading through this thread…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

[brooksby]

wycombewheeler wrote:

OnYerBike wrote:

I think they would have been better off cycling two abreast. 15 cyclist two abreast is just as easy to overtake as 8 cyclist single file (which is what simply splitting into two groups would have achieved). 

In terms of general principles, when I’m cycling in a group we do try to show consideration to drivers, including on occassion pulling over to let them past etc. However, this does need to be balanced with our own safety, convenience and enjoyment. Splitting in to smaller groups solely for short sections on busy road is not something we would normally do.

still a big group, 8 rows of cyclists is a pretty long block to pass, whereas 4 rows  and then another 4 rows 200m up the road should be easy to pass for a good driver.

Yeah, but you have to find a good driver first.

[quiff]

AndyIT wrote:

‘but I’m sure there are plenty of cyclists who think that singling out is actually the more considerate option to following drivers’ as i have explained that would be incorrect and unlikely an option to be chosen as being considerate, asuming they drive as well cycle..  it’s legal but not considerate. 

I sense very stroingly some cyclists can’t be bothered to be considerate; some are though. It’s a choice. 

I don’t know if you are wilfully misunderstanding my (admittedly somewhat devil’s advocate) point, so I’ll try once more before giving up. You may think that 15 cyclists riding single file is inconsiderate and that anyone would be incorrect to think otherwise. But that view is at odds with what the Highway Code actually says – it suggests that to be considerate (it actually uses that word) when riding in groups, you should single out to allow drivers to overtake when safe.

Now for what it’s worth, I actually agree with you that 15 riders in single file is sub-optimal and that the HWC wording is ,although now better, still problematic on this issue. I am simply pointing out that what you received as unthinking or deliberately obstructive behaviour could in fact have been intended as precisely the opposite – it could have been a conscious choice to do what the HWC says (rightly or wrongly) is considerate.      

[Car Delenda Est]

Clearly the road is congested
Clearly the road is congested with cycle traffic and this can only be alleviated with adding a cycle lane or two, or maybe three or four.

[Mungecrundle]

Cycling in a group or cycling
Cycling in a group or cycling alone, there are a minority of drivers who will always consider your presence on the road to be inconsiderate.

Neither is it just cyclists who are a target for their aggression, evidenced by no end of driver on driver road rage videos.

I feel you have bought into the whole manufactured nonsense of driver v cyclist and the myth that cyclists are a significant cause of traffic delays. You are seeking to address this “problem” by insisting that the person on the bicycle never makes an error of judgement and always prioritises the driver in any shared road use situation. You can dress that up as common sense, cyclist will always come of worse, shouldn’t use the road for recreational activities etc, but maybe you should focus on the inconsiderate and far more hazardous actions of the angry driver demographic.

[wycombewheeler]

AndyIT wrote:

it’s not hard to understand (just see previous comments – imagine you wanted to cross a queue of people at e.g. a checkout – most peole will let someone go through a queue rather than making them walk around) but some cyclists can’t be bothered to be considerate just as some car drivers can’t either….  I get it. 

and almost every single car driver will block access into or out of a side road when they are in congestion, which is much more similar to your checkout queue situation. As the cyclists are not standing around blocking the space, they are progrerssing along the road. So It’s more like if you are walking along the pavement and there is a large group ahead walking slower, filling the narrow pavement then you likely just slow down, you don’t expect them to  stop and squeeze up against the wall to let yopu past, or single out, or split into smaller groups, you just slow down.

Lets not forget the main reason drivers can’t get past is because they insist on travelling in a large box that takes all the space. If they were on a motorbike, they would likely pass the group of 15 cyclists single file without delay. The vast majority of cars on the road are single people not transporting lots of stuff

[wycombewheeler]

hawkinspeter wrote:

AndyIT wrote:

I disagree; I do think it’s selfish but legal. However just because something is legal is not a reason not to adopt more considerate behaviour (but that applies more to drivers than cyclists). 

I don’t follow how it is selfish? 15 people on bikes will take up an equivalent space of maybe 3 cars which would typically be 3-4 people. That seems economical to me and choosing to use a car with only one or two occupants strikes me as extremely selfish, especially when you consider the pollution that they create.

I don’t get why you’re bringing the legality into this.

if they are single file it could be more like 5 cars (depending on the gaps between cars)

[wycombewheeler]

Adam Sutton wrote:

I ride out on the lanes around me and there are a lot of horses about, multiple times I have seen shitty behaviour from cyclists towards horse riders. Worse case was a time I had slowed up seeing some ahead, and two other cyclists just came steaming past me at speed and didn’t give a moments consideration to the horses or how they may react.

Yeah, but a lot of the worst overtakes I have ever had are horseists once they put their horse in a horse box. So if we are going for the collective responsibility thing, I may run out of patience with horse riders.

[wycombewheeler]

OnYerBike wrote:

I think they would have been better off cycling two abreast. 15 cyclist two abreast is just as easy to overtake as 8 cyclist single file (which is what simply splitting into two groups would have achieved). 

In terms of general principles, when I’m cycling in a group we do try to show consideration to drivers, including on occassion pulling over to let them past etc. However, this does need to be balanced with our own safety, convenience and enjoyment. Splitting in to smaller groups solely for short sections on busy road is not something we would normally do.

still a big group, 8 rows of cyclists is a pretty long block to pass, whereas 4 rows  and then another 4 rows 200m up the road should be easy to pass for a good driver.

[AndyIT]

no a child could understand

no a child (but not some adult cyclists it appears) could understand it not know it… 

[AndyIT]

‘but I’m sure there are

‘but I’m sure there are plenty of cyclists who think that singling out is actually the more considerate option to following drivers’ as i have explained that would be incorrect and unlikely an option to be chosen as being considerate, asuming they drive as well cycle..  it’s legal but not considerate. 

I sense very stroingly some cyclists can’t be bothered to be considerate; some are though. It’s a choice. 

[giff77]

While walking to the shops

While walking to the shops the other day I was stunned at the numbers of waiting cars all of which were shoddily and illegally parked up on pavements, cycle paths and roundabouts by my old school. All the more astounding when the school is now 750 pupils against the 1200 when I attended. Back then kicking out time was an inevitable swarm of bodies cycling/walking/bussing and very few chauffeuring. Now you have to negotiate cars rather than bodies. 

[chrisonabike]

Aargh!  Beetlejuice!

Aargh!  Beetlejuice!

[David9694]

Whatever the configuration of

Whatever the configuration of the 15 cyclists, on most roads, if you’ve got a whole bunch of oncoming, you aren’t going anywhere past them in a hurry. No cars/less cars = no problem/ less problem. 

[Author]

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