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Do stories of death and injury affect your attitude to cycling?

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  • November 13, 2013 at 1:36 pm #20201
    joemmo

    Here’s my CV: I’ve been cycling for about 35 years or so, cycle toured in the UK, commuted in London, Newcastle, Denver and Eindhoven, mountain-biked, club cycled and generally ridden a fair bit non-competitively. Generally I consider myself fairly road savvy and during this time I’ve been fortunate not to have any crashes that were serious and none that involved other vehicles. As a comparison I’ve been involved in 3 collisions while driving (not at fault..) one of which wrote off a car and hospitalised me.

    The risks of road riding have always been apparent but never really ‘felt’ dangerous or intruded on my enjoyment of riding, on the whole.

    Recently though – maybe its partially age or having kids – the threat of injury has started to intrude more on my mind to the extent where I’ve asked myself ‘do I really want to go for a ride today?’. For example, I read about the latest tragic deaths in London this morning and sat looking at my cycling kit for 10 minutes, wondering if maybe I might just drive to work instead today but eventually convinced myself no, this is not going to stop me and took the bike.

    Road.cc is to be applauded for highlighting cycling casualties and the issues round safety but I sometimes I wish I could return to a state of wilful ignorance about what can happen out there. This is a great site for existing cyclists and I’m not suggesting it should change it’s remit but I really can’t imagine the content would encourage anyone to take it up as a hobby or transport.

    I wondered how other riders felt about this. Do you feel better for being well informed of the risk? Has your attitude changed with age and experience?

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  • November 14, 2013 at 9:59 am #762781
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    kie7077

    It’s unfortunate for the
    It’s unfortunate for the victims and understandably off-putting the news over the last week, but what we don’t get is balance, there are 8ish million people in London, 4000 a year of them are dying from the pollution, 10-20 die cycling. I don’t know how many of them are dying from being unfit but it must be Tens of Thousands. These news stories lack that perspective, we don’t hear how many car drivers died during the same period. I’m going to make up a statistic now, there must be a million near misses for every cyclist death – I know I’ve had my fair share.

    Take primary, stay out of the car door zone, wear white at night, use 250+ lumen lights. don’t cut up motors, I expect you know all this, but the numbers say experience cyclists are far safer than the average cyclist.

    November 13, 2013 at 9:48 pm #762779
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    arfa

    Nixter, I can quite honestly
    Nixter, I can quite honestly say that if I didn’t ride defensively over the last 15 years of commuting daily in London, the only way you’d be hearing from me would be via Ouija board.
    Yes I might have an element of luck but by presuming the worst from HGV/bus drivers, royal mail, certain crappy minicab companies, white van man, FU yoof drivers, drugged up nutters who have threatened to pull guns on me etc etc it has nothing to do with perception. I can categorically say that if I had not always presumed the worst from the drivers mentioned above I would be just another KSI statistic.
    Oh and by the way, over that 15 years I have been taken out 3 times on my bike (not my fault). Strangely enough, behind the wheel of a car I have never had an accident and trust me, I take no more risk on a bike than behind the wheel of a car.
    So yes, cycling in aggregate across the country is relatively low risk. However you can markedly improve your chances by how you ride. That said you can never improve your chances against a wholly negligent driver

    November 13, 2013 at 9:21 pm #762777
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    Nixster

    I think the core question was
    I think the core question was do you feel better for being well informed of the risk.

    The whole issue of perception of risk is very interesting and more to do with psychology than statistics. Having incidents brought to my attention does make me feel that the risk is higher than if they weren’t. This doesn’t mean I am better informed though, it just means that I perceive the risk as being higher. And no, I feel worse as a consequence even if I don’t change my behaviour e.g. ride less.

    A good example is after Potters Bar there was an observable move to driving rather than train travel for a short period. As a consequence more additional road deaths occurred than were killed in the train crash as driving is much less safe than rail travel. But the risk was perceived as greater due to that one incident. Those people certainly weren’t better informed.

    The defensive riding advice while no doubt sound is helping the people giving it to lower their perception of risk and giving them a sense of control. Does it significantly change the already relatively low level of risk associated with cycling?

    Perhaps it does. But the good news is that, on average, cycling is a relatively safe form of transport.

    November 13, 2013 at 8:52 pm #762775
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    Anonymous

    Even though I have commuted
    Even though I have commuted through central London for nearly a decade until two years ago I now certainly feel more vulnerable on the days I need to cycle in London, probably because somehow I am more familiar now with the catalogue of deaths on London roads, but on the whole I’m happy to go out and cycle in the countryside.

    I can only imagine how many people are discouraged from (taking up) cycling in London by reading today’s front page of the Evening Standard.

    November 13, 2013 at 4:44 pm #762773
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    allez neg

    Over a decade of motorbikes
    Over a decade of motorbikes (and sometimes being a bit naughty on them) a bit more in cars and almost a whole lifetime spent cycling has (hopefully) given me a decent amount of situational awareness, so no, reading of death and danger hasn’t diminished my desire to cycle.

    A mate of mine, who did a potentially hazardous job and rode reasonably fast motorbikes both for fun and transport recently died in what can only be described as a stupid and pointless accident as a result of a construction hoarding giving way, so while we do what we can to reduce the risks to a level we are willing to accept when we do dangerous things for fun, there but by the grace of God and all that…..

    This summer, it must be said, saw my first accident, where I was so intent on making eye contact with white van man at a dodgy junction to ascertain whether or not he intended to squash me, I failed to spot the old boy in his ford pensionermobile turning into his driveway about 6 feet in front of me. Oops.

    November 13, 2013 at 4:44 pm #762771
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    joemmo

    yes, anyone who has spent
    yes, anyone who has spent enough time on the road develops a set of strategies either consciously or not that reduce the risk. The ‘cyclecraft’ rules are pretty good for this as well if people need a jump start.

    re: Scandinavia – I spent some time in Malmo recently (and a few months in Eindhoven – Holland) and it broke my heart how normalised and easy utility cycling is there. We are so, so far behind and it makes me question whether I’m prepared to put myself on the ‘front line’ in this country.

    Like you Arfa, I want my kids to learn and enjoy cycling but I would not release them on the roads, at least our local estate is relatively quiet and has a 20mph limit which is obeyed for the most part.

    November 13, 2013 at 3:35 pm #762769
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    r48

    The risk is galling. I cycle
    The risk is galling. I cycle about 17 miles a day, 80% of it on cycle lanes. I ride very defensively, being a car driver and an ex-motorcycle rider, I know how crap 10% of motorists are. I think motorists (inc. me) should have to re-take the driving test every 5 years or so.

    Three safety procedures that may help you
    ===========================

    At busy junctions, I go down the road and cross in the queue of traffic. Not in the zones where the car drivers are playing a game of dare to take a position to pull out.

    On a Hill, where the car driver may be crap at hill starts/handrake throttle coordination, I go behind them. They can be so preoccupied with starting on a hill that they simply do not look.

    On dodgy left turns where lorries go, fuck it, I go on the pavement.
    They are killers, and they getaway with it.
    ============================================
    Someone should make a video of this.
    Non car driving cyclists dont generally take these precautions.
    ============================================

    As an attitude, its your life, so don’t be mindlessly good and ‘law abiding’.

    If the highways agency put signs (for the cars) up on cycle lanes I simply take them down and throw them away. I put the sandbags on the kerb.
    Why not, if there is no proper barrier, use the crap they just tried to kill you with to make one.
    Mostly though another cyclist on the route has done this before me.
    Might be a Brighton thing…

    I used to cycle in a scandinavian country where there were proper segregated cycle lanes. This country is absolute shit for cycling and very dangerous. But I still cycle to work (unless its really badly raining).

    November 13, 2013 at 3:17 pm #762767
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    arfa

    The simple answer to your
    The simple answer to your question is no the stories do not affect my own attitude as I avoid HGV’s, buses etc at all costs and ride very defensively. Just last night I avoided being t boned by some yoof in a hot hatch because I assumed with the speed he approached the junction he was going to hammer on & right hook across me as he just didn’t give a shit. Instinct told me to hammer on the brakes and that is why I wasn’t obliterated. So why repeat the anecdote ? Unfortunately this sort of attitude is far from isolated and I encounter wildly obnoxious and hazardous driving every day and I do my best to reduce risks on my journey.
    That said I feel desperately sad & angry at the needless loss of life and the political bullshit about encouraging cycling. How can the architects of the existing infrastructure sleep at night knowing they are encouraging novices on to the road and into death trap infrastructure which some will never gain the experience to know just how dangerous it is ?
    In the meantime, we waste money on “consultation” when we know from all the good work the dutch have done what works – the time, money and lives lost in the interim is just criminal.
    In answer to your question about better information I fully applaud road.cc in highlighting these tragic deaths as there is always the faint hope that an element of repetition can be avoided (emphasis on faint) and the grief that is being inflicted on those close those lost is not ignored and repeated.
    The real hypocrisy in my own position is that there is no way I would let my children ride on London’s roads and I can not rationalise it beyond the fact that too many people die. Yes, statiscally the risks are small but tell that to the recently bereaved – all I can really add is to offer my condolences to them.

    November 13, 2013 at 3:17 pm #762765
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    William Black

    The comments in reply to such
    The comments in reply to such tragic stories have been an eyeopener.

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