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Just an idea about “road tax”.

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  • November 12, 2013 at 6:34 pm #20195
    Neil753

    Yes, yes, yes, we should all “get some road tax” according to many motorists. Depressingly tedious, as we all know, but the history lesson about abolition in 1937 is unlikely to be received with philosophical acceptance by many drivers during the briefest of “traffic light discussions”. And despite there being a surprising number of official exemptions (covered very well on Carlton Reid’s excellent “I Pay Road Tax” website) the expectation seems to be that cyclists should be paying something, even if that’s plainly unfair.

    But what if we did pay something? Would that mean less hassle on the road? Less aggression, fewer “punishment passes”, less verbal diarrhea at traffic lights, less resentment of our presence in “their space” on “their roads”? Could we improve cycle safety by paying some sort of token “road tax” very visibly, and in a way that motorists can understand? I say we can, and I’m wondering if anyone out there agrees.

    I’m suggesting an annual cycling “tax disc”, similar in size and appearance to a vehicle tax disc, and issued by DVLA using current mechanisms (ie post offices or online). The issuing of the tax disc would be dependant on proof of third party insurance. Although there would be no vehicle registration number as such, the serial number would link the tax disc holder to their details at DVLA. The price would be perhaps £5, essentially as a token payment. The tax disc could be attached to a bike in a slimline tax disc holder, perhaps where a race number is normally fixed. Registration would be entirely voluntary, to avoid being a barrier to cycle uptake.

    The advantage of such a system would be to show, very visibly to motorists, that the cyclist is insured, registered, and an official holder of a “tax disc”, so satisfying demands of those who want cyclists to indeed be insured, registered, traceable, and “paying road tax” (even though we know that is a little unfair) and at five pounds a year would represent more than the current per capita spend nationally, so essentially we could argue that point at every level, both politically and “on the street”. Although there would be many cyclists who wouldn’t want to subscribe to such a scheme, the satisfaction of being able to point at a “tax disc” would be enormous. And inevitably, even though DVLA receipts aren’t ringfenced, there would potentially be more money for cycle related projects.

    I don’t think we should be too concerned about such a scheme being voluntary, rather than compulsory, since many motorists (around 10 percent apparently) see insurance and VED as optional too. The main thing is to make a start, something that many serious cyclists, tired of the “road tax” conflict, may welcome.

    Anyway, this might be one of my radical idea too far, but I’d really appreciate peoples’ views.

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Viewing 13 replies - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
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  • November 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm #762673
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    reallyunique

    I wish this were a good idea,
    I wish this were a good idea, I really do. If all it took was a single payment to appease the motorists and equalise the status of all road users, I’m sure even pedestrians could be convinced to sign up. But it is hardly that simple.

    Motorists hate cyclists because cars go so fast that bikes seem to be in their way. They hate cyclists because they can cut through traffic in a way that makes the investment of thousands of to sit in a traffic jam seem like a bit of a waste. Cyclists are law-breakers, dangerous, out of control, and most importantly, not “us”.

    I am not against the registration of bikes (could help with theft), prosecution for breaking the rules is reasonable even prudent. Regulation should be feared and where possible avoided but it is inevitable and embracing sensible rules is part of the path to integration. Cyclists are already regulated though the rules are poorly enforced mostly because infractions of the rules are far less dangerous than those involving cars. Pedestrian regulations are even less rigorously enforced.

    Pay tax and then there’ll be insurance, duties on parts, requirements for helmets, high-vis, MOT style testing and, of course, a cycling licence. And after doing all that you’ll still be “only a bloody bike”. Motorcyclists have similar taxes and regulations to cars and yet are hardly less likely to hear SMIDSY or get shouted at for weaving though traffic. “Those damned motorbike couriers” was a common cry from taxi drivers when I was younger. Appeasement is never the answer, the British should remember this better than anyone.

    But if not appeasement then what? History would suggest that only a witches brew of education, legislation and perseverance will improve things. None of this is easy. Education takes money and planning and effort. Legislation takes pressure and money and compromise. Perseverance takes self control and determination. Even then the outcome is uncertain. Now that I list some alternatives I can see why appeasement is appealing. If only it were a good idea.

    November 12, 2013 at 10:19 pm #762671
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    giff77

    No problems with an insurance
    No problems with an insurance disc. I know that the Republic of Ireland have these and have done for many years for vehicles. Meanwhile in Northern Ireland you have to display a MOT disc alongside your VED disc. Though how would you find an increase in duty on fuel what with your being a lorry driver? I know it is something that my own dad was very much for and he was a lorry driver also.

    November 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm #762669
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    Neil753

    bikeboy76 wrote:Neil753

    bikeboy76 wrote:
    Neil753 wrote:
    True, it could be the thin end of the wedge, but it would be voluntary, so no risk of being forced to pay it. I see it as a way to end all the arguments on the roads. Ie, if drivers harrang cyclists about “road tax” then you would only have to point to the tax disc. But, I agree, it is an unusual concept.

    It wouldn’t be the end of the argument but the start of one. At least at the moment a motorist using the ‘road tax’ argument is wrong even if many of them don’t know or don’t care about the difference. If you introduced a scheme and then make it voluntary you instantly give some weight to the argument. You would be handing a stick to bad drivers, “Oh look you ain’t got no tax,” how could a voluntary scheme do anything but stigmatize casual bikers.

    Hmm. Yes, I concede your point. There is, of course, the concept of getting rid of VED totally, increasing the duty on fuel and just having an “insurance disc”. How would you feel about a voluntary insurance disc for cyclists?

    November 12, 2013 at 10:05 pm #762667
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    giff77

    Neil753 wrote:giff77 wrote:I

    Neil753 wrote:
    giff77 wrote:
    I really don’t think that having a ‘disc’ attatached to ones bike will make any difference. In fact I think that it will only reinforce the misconception that road users pay for the roads. The token charge probably wouldn’t even cover the admin, printing the discs etc. You will still have the motor industry et al still referring to VED as road tax and motorists will still attempt to exercise their ‘might is right’ mentality towards the more vulnerable.

    Suggest you wind that window down and get some fresh air in your cab mate 😉 but keep the ideas coming :)

    According to Carlton Reid, “a Freedom of Information request submitted to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, the cost of a tax disc is £1.47 for those bought at a Post Office, and 95p for those bought online”.

    Yes, it is a misconception, but such a widespread one that maybe it would be easier to just call it road tax and be done with it. When you see videos of cyclists explaining that there’s no such thing as road tax you just know it’s just going in one ear and out of the other.

    I appreciate your points, though.

    Yeah, usually when I try explaining to work colleagues their eyes just glaze over. I feel that whatever you do there will always be antipathy towards cyclists as the bicycle is no longer seen as a viable form of transport but a toy.

    November 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm #762665
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    Leviathan

    Neil753 wrote:True, it could

    Neil753 wrote:
    True, it could be the thin end of the wedge, but it would be voluntary, so no risk of being forced to pay it. I see it as a way to end all the arguments on the roads. Ie, if drivers harrang cyclists about “road tax” then you would only have to point to the tax disc. But, I agree, it is an unusual concept.

    It wouldn’t be the end of the argument but the start of one. At least at the moment a motorist using the ‘road tax’ argument is wrong even if many of them don’t know or don’t care about the difference. If you introduced a scheme and then make it voluntary you instantly give some weight to the argument. You would be handing a stick to bad drivers, “Oh look you ain’t got no tax,” how could a voluntary scheme do anything but stigmatize casual bikers.

    November 12, 2013 at 9:16 pm #762663
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    freespirit1

    I ride a motorcycle and never
    I ride a motorcycle and never had one swiped from it, had a couple taken from cars over the years.

    It was more aggro replacing the discs than the windows!!

    As for putting peoples backs up you are probably right as I have had the I pay more than you lobbed at me.

    November 12, 2013 at 9:05 pm #762661
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    Neil753

    freespirit1 wrote:How about

    freespirit1 wrote:
    How about like zero emission cars that have no VED, you go to the post office, produce your insurance and get a disc.

    No need for £5, the mechanisms are already there.

    True. If the £5 fee is unpalatable then your suggestion would be a possible alternative solution. But the scheme would cost roughly one pound per cyclist per year to administer, which would come out of general taxation, which might put peoples’ backs up.

    November 12, 2013 at 8:59 pm #762659
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    arfa

    Hate to say this but with the
    Hate to say this but with the anti cycling lobby, whatever you pay is never going to be enough as you’d still get “pay your way” etc

    November 12, 2013 at 8:48 pm #762657
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    Neil753

    bikeboy76 wrote:’slimline tax

    bikeboy76 wrote:
    ’slimline tax disc holder’, really, and ruin my cool lines, or just have it ripped off, or have to take it off every time I park on the street. The word ‘token’ sums it up really. The current system at least allows us to have a comeback about emissions etc, but £5 is a pointless bureaucratic nonsense. Drivers will consider that derisory and virtually no different to nothing. I could spend £5 on Panini stickers, or £5 on a panini instead. And who wants the start the thin end of the wedge.
    I never thought of the risk of theft of the disc. I wonder if motorbike riders have problems with the theft of tax discs.

    True, it could be the thin end of the wedge, but it would be voluntary, so no risk of being forced to pay it. I see it as a way to end all the arguments on the roads. Ie, if drivers harrang cyclists about “road tax” then you would only have to point to the tax disc. But, I agree, it is an unusual concept.

    November 12, 2013 at 8:39 pm #762655
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    Neil753

    giff77 wrote:I really don’t

    giff77 wrote:
    I really don’t think that having a ‘disc’ attatached to ones bike will make any difference. In fact I think that it will only reinforce the misconception that road users pay for the roads. The token charge probably wouldn’t even cover the admin, printing the discs etc. You will still have the motor industry et al still referring to VED as road tax and motorists will still attempt to exercise their ‘might is right’ mentality towards the more vulnerable.

    Suggest you wind that window down and get some fresh air in your cab mate 😉 but keep the ideas coming :)

    According to Carlton Reid, “a Freedom of Information request submitted to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, the cost of a tax disc is £1.47 for those bought at a Post Office, and 95p for those bought online”.

    Yes, it is a misconception, but such a widespread one that maybe it would be easier to just call it road tax and be done with it. When you see videos of cyclists explaining that there’s no such thing as road tax you just know it’s just going in one ear and out of the other.

    I appreciate your points, though.

    November 12, 2013 at 8:00 pm #762653
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    giff77

    I really don’t think that
    I really don’t think that having a ‘disc’ attatached to ones bike will make any difference. In fact I think that it will only reinforce the misconception that road users pay for the roads. The token charge probably wouldn’t even cover the admin, printing the discs etc. You will still have the motor industry et al still referring to VED as road tax and motorists will still attempt to exercise their ‘might is right’ mentality towards the more vulnerable.

    Suggest you wind that window down and get some fresh air in your cab mate 😉 but keep the ideas coming 🙂

    November 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm #762651
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    freespirit1

    How about like zero emission
    How about like zero emission cars that have no VED, you go to the post office, produce your insurance and get a disc.

    No need for £5, the mechanisms are already there.

    November 12, 2013 at 7:15 pm #762649
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    Leviathan

    ‘slimline tax disc holder’,
    ‘slimline tax disc holder’, really, and ruin my cool lines, or just have it ripped off, or have to take it off every time I park on the street. The word ‘token’ sums it up really. The current system at least allows us to have a comeback about emissions etc, but £5 is a pointless bureaucratic nonsense. Drivers will consider that derisory and virtually no different to nothing. I could spend £5 on Panini stickers, or £5 on a panini instead. And who wants the start the thin end of the wedge.

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