Signage on private land…do they need it by law?

all you need to know here:

all you need to know here:

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/08/rights-of-way/

The Ordinance Survey is very, very accurate when it comes to Public Rights of Way. If the ‘trail’ you were on fits the descriptions in the link above then the farmer needs to be reported, otherwise…

mattydubster wrote:

mattydubster wrote:

I’ve even resorted to openstreetmaps but with limited success (this is what got me into trouble as the track in question is clearly marked as a footpath)

I think the same issue as highlighted above applies here. You can have a footpath marked on the map when the access is private.

Open Street Map is user edited, so in case the path in question is not marked as being private access, this is something you will be able to correct yourself if you are interested in contributing. You can go to http://www.openstreetmap.org, find the path in question, click “edit” (create an account), select the path, scroll down to the access box on the left and select “private”, then save. You might save someone else a similar encounter 🙂

Duncann wrote:

mattydubster wrote:

And I’ve just checked,  it’s marked as a trail on OS too….I’ve got no chance..

But a trail, whether on the map or the ground isn’t necessarily a right of way! The two are differently identified on the map. 

Sometimes there’ll be a RoW that doesn’t have a visible trail (e.g. through a newly-ploughed field), and there are plenty trails which aren’t RoWs!

Correct. Our family are fortunate to live in the countryside and part of our driveway has a ROW, pedestrian only. There are no signs, it is up to the user to know, there have been only a few people who we have needed to educate.

The local authority will have

The local authority will have a definitive map of PRoWs somewhere on line if you really want the fully legal answer. Finding exactly where PRoWs are is a real PITA, but such is life and unfortunately you’ve got to assume that land is private unless stated otherwise…

This is an excellent example

This is an excellent example of why countries with a ‘Right to Roam’ are much better places than those without.

In England and Wales the

In England and Wales the basic assumption of the trespass law is that all land is private and no access is permitted unless signed or otherwise obvious. It is a civil offence and no action can be taken if you leave the land promptly and do not return as long as you have caused no damage. They do not need to put up signs, they can as a courtesy- it seems sensible to do so if there other Public Right Of Way paths connecting to it.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

I don’t think there’s any legal requirement for him to put up signs. But then the quid-pro-quo of that, I guess, is the fact that trespass is not (outside of Buckingham palace and a few military sites etc, since that guy wandered into the Queen’s bedroom and they introduced a new law) a criminal offence. You can’t be arrested for it, and I guess (not a lawyer!) if nobody actually tells you to leave you aren’t technically committing any offense. You can accidentally wander onto his property, and all he can do is ask you to leave if he happens to catch you doing so. I suppose it only becomes a legal issue if you then refuse to do so? Though, what’s the legal situation if you go back another day to somewhere he previously told you to leave? Does the previous request still apply? Hmm, another question is, what would be the score if, having ‘accidentally’ trespassed, you injured yourself on something on his private land because it wasn’t safe? I _think_ you’d still be able to sue him, for the same reason why it’s not allowed for home-owners to install mantraps for burglars. Anyway, we pay to keep most farmers in business, so it’s all our land in any case.

If you refuse to leave then a landowner is entitled to use ‘reasonable’ force.  What is reasonable is difficult to judge and ultimately might come down to the decision of a magistrate or jury.  Asking politely then theatening a quick slap round the chops might be ok but waving a machete in the face of a trespasser is unlikely to be viewed favourably.

Answer on the injiry question is that it depends.  If the OP just tripped and fell under his own steam then there would be no actionable case.  If the farmer had decided to plant land mines, then yes.  Unless of course the landowner had taken reasonable steps to both warn trespassers and prevent their access e.g. big signs, flashing lights, barbed wire, padlocks etc.  A previous verbal warning could be taken as contributory negligence on the part of the trespasser.  Most household insurance includes provisions for this e.g. if someone walked up to your front door and tripped on a loose paving slab.

So in summary, be reasonable, polite and if you’re off the correct path then apologise sweetly and don’t get drawn into verbal abuse!