Red light jumper

fizrar6 wrote:

There are 2 sets of light which I will happily jump through.

One is at the park and ride in North Queensferry where the road planners have changed a junction from requiring  no traffic lights to requiring about 5 sets of traffic lights. The lights exiting the Park and Ride (where I leave my car) are not activated by bikes so in the morning when everyone is arriving I could wait 10 or 15 mins for a car to leave before the lights change to green.

The other is on a bus/cycle lane going into Edinburgh. The lights are activated by buses (1 every 20 mins) but not bikes. The cars queue at lights waiting to get on to the main carriageway so if I did not jump the lights I would have to wait  for a bus or cycle with the fast moving cars.

Sometimes its actually safer to jump lights if you’re a cyclist.

There are a few sets of lights where I have to do the same in Glasgow. Of course the key difference here is we only jump the red lights that we know are a problem, we do it cautiously and only when there is no traffic behind us (because if there was then the sensor would be activated). As a result it should not be annoying anyone and I am pretty sure this falls under the rule 178 of the highway code “If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care”.

hawkinspeter wrote:

ClubSmed wrote:

Don’t even try to start trying to use the excuse of “It’s OK for me to do it but not them because they will cause more damage”, it makes you look like a dick!

Think of how you would react if a car driver made the same statement about not equating themselves with vans or lorries.
Anything that goes through a red light is breaking the law and puting people at risk, it does not matter what size your mode of transport is or how it is powered, it can still seriously hurt or kill people!

Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but doesn’t always involve putting people at risk. A cyclist going 5mph through a red light is hardly going to seriously hurt or kill people. Another point to bear in mind is that cyclists have a certain amount of skin in the game, so experienced cyclists are unlikely to put themselves at risk. (With inexperienced cyclists, all bets are off).

Given the reports today of the court case where a cyclist is facing manslaughter charges for killing a pedestrian it clearly can put people at risk.

Maybe it doesn’t every time, but neither would it put people at risk every time a car, van, truck motorcyclist did it either but that does not make it right!

crazy-legs wrote:

HurdyGurdy wrote:

So you will be fine if every car driver starts jumping reds when it is safe to do so ?

Clearly not (although there are certain exceptions) but you cannot possibly equate a car (weighing > 1 tonne and taking up approx 10 sq m of road space) going through a red light vs a cyclist (weighting about 100kg all up and taking up maybe 3 sq m of road space) going through a red light.

Don’t equate compliance with the law and safety.

Don’t even try to start trying to use the excuse of “It’s OK for me to do it but not them because they will cause more damage”, it makes you look like a dick!
Think of how you would react if a car driver made the same statement about not equating themselves with vans or lorries.
Anything that goes through a red light is breaking the law and puting people at risk, it does not matter what size your mode of transport is or how it is powered, it can still seriously hurt or kill people!

I don’t see red light jumping

I don’t see red light jumping cyclists very often near me. I know a junction or two where I always see red light jumping cars tho. I do always stop for them unless it’s obvious they aren’t going to change for me, then I creep through.

One of the only times I’ve ever had an issue with a red light jumper tho was a cyclist while I was crossing a street on my first trip to London. Pelican crossing with green man showing, I stepped out and a courier rider plowed into me. I’ve since learned to look before I cross, but it didn’t occur to me becasue the cars were stopped at the line (he was filtering up the inside). Now this incident I lay squarely at the feet of couriers rather than cyclists, every time I’ve seen someone doing something really stupid on a bike or moped they’ve either had a Deliveroo box on them or some other delivery item.

The courier that hit me got a bit of instant karma as I’ve got about 60 (rather wobbly) kg on the average courier rider so he might as well have ridden into a lamp post. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes I guess. Even so, being hit by a bike isn’t much fun and he could have easily hit a more vulnerable person.

Anyway, bit of a ramble there. I guess I’m saying that red light jumping isn’t as prevalent as people seem to think that it is, but the times it does happen it sticks in the mind, which I think alters our perception of the frequency. That and delivery riders, like taxis seem to think they own the road 

crazy-legs wrote:

You’ve misinterpreted that deliberately.

When I am riding (as in, not when I am walking or driving…) if I can pull in or wave someone past or take a road that’s quieter then I will do so. If I jump a set of lights (not “caning through them at 30mph shouting STRAVA” but carefully filter through if safe to do so) then that’s actually more convenient for the motorists because it gets me out of their way (while also fulfilling both (1) and (2) of my list – go me for multitasking!)

Doesn’t seem like i did – you are still saying you are ok to break the law when it suits you.

Advocate for turn on red etc via legal means but if you going to leave law open to selective adherence it is no longer law. 

So you will be fine if every car driver starts jumping reds when it is safe to do so ?

HurdyGurdy wrote:

So you advocating obeying the law as fourth consideration only.  Remind me to get off the road anytime you are on it. this means you support drivers can do as they like you know because their convenience trumps obeying the law (you said it !   convenience second , obeying law fourth)

That will work well as defense in court though…

You’ve misinterpreted that deliberately.

When I am riding (as in, not when I am walking or driving…) if I can pull in or wave someone past or take a road that’s quieter then I will do so. If I jump a set of lights (not “caning through them at 30mph shouting STRAVA” but carefully filter through if safe to do so) then that’s actually more convenient for the motorists because it gets me out of their way (while also fulfilling both (1) and (2) of my list – go me for multitasking!)

They may not appreciate it for what it is but getting away from the F1 starting grid behind me gives them the space the channel their inner Vettel and I’m safely out the way.

I can’t make drivers obey the law – the vast majority don’t – so I’ll stay safe and out of their way as far as possible and they can do what they want. It’s worked well so far.

Roads, and especially junctions, are designed for vehicles first and, as you probably know from the vastly underwhelming array of “cycle lanes” that are put in as a complete afterthought, anyone not in a car is treated as a third class citizen so “the law” is clearly the 4th part of that list. Frankly if the road designers and councils can’t come up with safe infrastructure to protect me, I’ll do it myself.

crazy-legs wrote:

Concentrate on your own riding – do it safely, assertively and obey whatever road laws you feel are necessary at any given moment. Personally, I go with: 1) my safety, 2) my convenience, 3) the convenience of other road users, 4) the law when I ride but whatever works for you.

So you advocating obeying the law as fourth consideration only.  Remind me to get off the road anytime you are on it. this means you support drivers can do as they like you know because their convenience trumps obeying the law (you said it !   convenience second , obeying law fourth)

That will work well as defense in court though…

It’s fine to criticise other

It’s fine to criticise other people’s behaviour, if you want to be disliked as a busy-body, but if you’re going to do it then be consistent. Make sure you inform all the car drivers that are speeding and leave messages on every wrongly parked vehicle as well. And don’t forget every pedestrian that drops litter or is listening to music that they haven’t paid for.

Or, is it only cyclists that you want to harass/complain about?