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Upgrades to a Genesis Croix de Fer

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  • December 15, 2016 at 10:18 am #26576
    cdean

    Hi all, I’m looking for some advice. I’m pretty new to cycling and have been riding for around a year, clocking up 4,500km since January. I have a Genesis Croix de Fer 20 2015 model which is my do everything bike from club runs to sportives to riding through the woods. I’m planning to do some longer rides this year (including the Tour of Flanders sportive that I’ve signed up to) and while I’d ideally like a new lighter bike for summer road riding and use the CDF for winter / mixed terrain, space and my wife’s patience will not accommodate a new bike at present, so I’m looking at upgrading the Croix de Fer.

    From reading around, wheels seem a good starting point (although other suggestions are welcome!) I tend to use the 35mm Continental cyclocross speed tyres that it came with for winter / woods and put 28mm Schwalbe Durano tyres on it for road riding, so another attraction of a second wheel set is leaving one shod with knobblies and one with slicks for quick changeovers as conditions / mood change. 

    The stock wheels are based on Alex Rims XD-Elite rims. I can’t find very much about them online. 

    So far I think I’m sold on the Hunt 4 Seasons (although I can’t make my mind up between the road and gravel variants) but thought I’d see whether anyone had any better ideas. I also looked at the Wiggle Cosine discs but discounted them as I like the idea of supporting a British manufacturer (part of the reason I bought a Genesis in the first place) and the reviews of the Hunt wheels are so good. 

    Is there a more worthwhile upgrade? Or will new wheels not make that much difference, so I should put the GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) on hold, and enjoy what I’ve got?

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  • December 23, 2016 at 8:19 pm #883469
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    cdean

    Thanks again for everyone’s

    Thanks again for everyone’s comments and input. I finally got around to weighing the stock Alexrims XD-Elites and the results are as follows (bear in mind that they were weighed on my kitchen scales – so I don’t claim precision!):

     

    Front wheel without QR skewer but with rotor: 1,130g

    Rear wheel without QR skewer but with rotor and cassette: 1,700g

    Total: 2,830g

    Deduct Tiagra 11-32 cassette @ 350g

    Deduct rotors @ say 280g

    Total: 2,200g

     

    The Hunt 4 Seasons are advertised at 1,585g and the Cosine discs at 1,610g, so I’d be looking at around a 600g saving. I appreciate that there may be improvements other than weight (e.g. stiffness), but does this change anyone’s advice? I’d sort of said to myself that if I was saving the best part of a kilogramme I’d go for it, but to save 600g I think I might be better off putting the GAS on hold and sticking the cash in an account to a future mythical n+1.

    December 16, 2016 at 8:05 pm #883467
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    Sadoldsamurai

    Interesting thread,

    Interesting thread,

    We have two 725 Croix de Fe’s, 

    My wife’s is standard, apart from a more forgiving transmission, (MTB triple through to XT rear mech and wider spaced block.)

    Mine is a much upgraded (by it’s original owner) with hope hubbed wheels..and other hope bearings..(headset and BB)

    I’ve swopped the original compact for an MTB (24/36) double, as I pull a Bob Yak with the shopping on it,

    and original brake calipers for a later version.

    The other thing I had to swop was to re-spoke the Hope built wheels with brass nipples, as the rear in particular snapped the alloy nipples with monotenous regularlity, (combination; vibration, salt and the additional weight of the trailer). The brass replacements have been faultless..

    However I aspire to a set of winter wheels, with a hub dynamo…and that would be my first choice upgrade in your position..

    December 16, 2016 at 7:24 pm #883465
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    ru w00dsy

    Also with the forks there is
    Also with the forks there is choices out there. Mine were from kinesis or Cotic, can’t remember now. Just took a couple of phone calls to retailers and that was it sorted.

    December 16, 2016 at 7:21 pm #883463
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    ru w00dsy

    I did a lot of riding on my
    I did a lot of riding on my cosine wheels with zero maintenance issues. This included muddy cyclocross rides, gentle mtb trails, road use and also commuting and leaving overnight in all weathers. For the price they are very good value for money. From memory they are about 600 grams lighter than the Alex rims. I’m only 68kgs mind.
    I wouldn’t get the cdf again, but something along those lines. Lots of choice in this category now.

    December 16, 2016 at 4:51 pm #883461
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    cdean

    Thanks again all. 

    Thanks again all. 

    @mikethebike I like that analogy. I’m away but planning to weigh the wheels at the weekend and see what the difference would actually be. I’d rather change the wheels than the groupset but each to his own – like you say it’s your bike and your money! 

    kil0ran I’m running Tiagra and have had a new chain and cassette already, but thanks for the advice! I plan to use the same ratios on both. 

    ktache I’ve changed the pedals and bar tape (following an off) and the saddle is on the to do list as I get a bit fidgety after a couple of hours. 

    @Roberts they look great but they’re at £400 at the moment – I’ll keep my eyes peeled for offers. Did the upgrade feel worth it?

    @ru w00dsy how big a difference did you find the Cosine wheels made over the stock ones? They were the other ones I was looking at and I’m thinking about them again as they’re so inexpensive for the weight, but am worried it’ll be a “buy cheap, buy twice” situation and I’d be better off with the Hunts which could go on a disk braked n+1 in the far future (hello dream Mason). I think 2017 carbon forks will be available at some point (don’t think they are yet) but don’t want to change the white and black aesthetic if possible. It’s interesting to hear that you’re thinking of going back to a CDF!

    @ClubSmed noted, thanks. I have the Duranos already but will look at those in future. 

    Dicklexic thanks that’s really helpful. I weigh 68kg and don’t plan doing fully loaded touring with them (and if I did I could always put the originals back on) so it sounds like either set would be great!

    December 16, 2016 at 2:15 pm #883459
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    Dicklexic
    . . wrote:
    ktache wrote:
    Being able to swap wheels rather than having to change tyres would be a dream for me.

    Unless you are very lucky, you’ll still need to realign the calipers each time you swap.  Since I switched to my winter wheels, I’ve realigned them twice and still get some binding when the brakes are hot.  Grr…

     

    My road bike and cyclocross bike are both disc equipped, plus I have another set of wheels that is used in both. One set is centrelock, and the others are six bolt fixing. I used very thin shim washers (0.2mm) to fine tune the position of the rotors on the six bolt hubs so they all match perfectly. I can now swap between all the wheels without issue. Bit of a faff but worth it. Not sure if there is any way to achieve this if both sets of hubs are centrelock. Don’t know how you’d fine tune the rotor position, but in my case I could make the 6-bolts match the centrelock.

     

    cdean wrote:
    So far I think I’m sold on the Hunt 4 Seasons (although I can’t make my mind up between the road and gravel variants) but thought I’d see whether anyone had any better ideas

    FWIW my centrelock wheels mentioned above are Hunt 4-Season Disc wheels and have given me fantastic service since April last year. They’ve done lots of road miles, some CX racing, some tough gravel rides/sportives and even a beach race on my MTB. I have been very happy with them, and definitely feel a difference when they are fitted instead of the other (heavier) wheels I own. One of my friends bought the gravel version earlier this year. He’s also very happy and they look as though they should be even more robust than mine. Depends how much abuse you plan on metering out!

    December 16, 2016 at 10:45 am #883457
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    . .

    ktache wrote:

    ktache wrote:
    Being able to swap wheels rather than having to change tyres would be a dream for me.

    Unless you are very lucky, you’ll still need to realign the calipers each time you swap.  Since I switched to my winter wheels, I’ve realigned them twice and still get some binding when the brakes are hot.  Grr…

    December 16, 2016 at 10:45 am #883455
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    ClubSmed

    I would suggest rather than

    I would suggest rather than getting the Schwalbe Durano 28mm it may be worth getting the Vittoria Voyager Hyper 35mm. The rolling resistance is much better (Durano 24.7 @60psi vs. Hyper 17.7 @60psi) and because they are 35s they should be a lot more comfortable and an easier transision from your winter 35s.

    Also, PlanetX currently have the Vittoria Voyager Hyper at only £15 each
    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYVIVOHY/vittoria-voyager-hyper-folding-tyre

    December 16, 2016 at 10:15 am #883453
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    ru w00dsy

    I had the 2014 Genesis CDF, I

    I had the 2014 Genesis CDF, I didn’t want to spend a fortune on it as was my commuter / winter bike. I upgraded the wheels, I just put on a cheap but light set of cosine from wiggle, £180, decent wheels for the price imo.

    I don’t know about the 2105 Croix, but if yours has a steel/cro-mo fork might be worth looking at a carbon fork upgrade – I did this, my view was that £150 on a lighter carbon fork and £180 on 500gram wheels would be a better investment that the Hunt or Kinesis wheels.

    http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/94111/products/genesis-croix-de-fer-disc-carbon-fork-2016-black.aspx

    And then stick some decent tyres on as well, for off road I used Bontrager CX3 Tubeless. These are 33c, for on road I use Bontrager All Weather 32’s. During the winter I would leave the knobblies on, only swapping over to the all weather tyres in late spring.

    I sold my CDF earlier this year and ahem “upgraded” to a lighter higher spec bike. I wanted hydraulic brakes and the cost of putting new hydraulic brakes and groupset was almost as much as my new bike cost me. But I really miss the bike and will possibly look at getting another one in the new year. My new bike is considerably lighter and the brakes are significantly better, but its just as nice to ride.

     

     

    December 15, 2016 at 11:36 pm #883451
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    Roberts Clubman

    If you’re going to upgrade

    If you’re going to upgrade anything, lighter wheels will make the biggest difference. I have a 2015 Genesis Equilbrium Ti Disc. I swapped out the stock Aksiums for some Superstar Components handbuilts: 32 hole  Icon Ultra hubs laced to Stans No Tubes ZTR Grail rims shod with  Schwalbe One Pro Tubeless 28s. They roll really well and the ride is peerless. Around £250 the pair from memory, but they often have offers http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/shop/road/wheels-custom-road/

    December 15, 2016 at 11:35 pm #883449
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    ktache

    As I understand it, a lot of

    As I understand it, a lot of manufacturers lower the spec on the wheels to bring it down to a price point.  Everyone knows about groupsets, so people notice when that  has been downgraded.

    As you’re talking about disc brakes, the rims are not going to wear out, which is normally the perfect time to upgrade, but if you can afford it go for it.  Especially if you can set everything up the same with spare disks and casette.  Being able to swap wheels rather than having to change tyres would be a dream for me.

    Have you changed the points of contacts yet?  Handlebar tape/grips, saddle and pedals make the biggest difference, for me, and are relatively cheap.  But anything you upgrade will make it more yours, and even if it might not make that much difference in performance, it will feel like it does.

    December 15, 2016 at 8:54 pm #883447
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    kil0ran

    If you’re getting into

    If you’re getting into swapping wheels regularly you’ll have a lot less hassle if you use the same spec cassette on both. Are you running Tiagra or 105? Given the miles you’ve done consider replacing your chain and cassette before running the new cassette, its a good idea to keep drivetrain wear levels similar – reduces shifting problems and general wear and tear on the drivetrain.

    December 15, 2016 at 6:26 pm #883445
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    mike the bike

     

     

    What a good buy Mr Dean, you have chosen well for your only bike.  You may have guessed I too have a Croix, although a couple of years older.  

    As time has gone by I have upgraded almost everything except, funnily enough, the wheels.  I figure the bike is always going to be heavy, it will always have relaxed geometry and it will always be slow on the hills.  You could put £1500-worth of carbon hoops on her but it won’t alter her fundamental characterisics, the reason you spent the money in the first place.  

    I’ve swapped things for comfort – like the new saddle, tyres and bar tape – and ergonomics – a full 105 groupset with new Spyre brakes.  But I don’t worry about speed or weight, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

    But hey, it’s your bike and your money.

     

    December 15, 2016 at 4:58 pm #883443
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    cdean

    Cheers all. Those DT Swiss

    Cheers all. Those DT Swiss look great but I’d need to find a really good deal on them as they seem to be quite a bit more expensive. Love those machined hubs though! No one has come along to tell me that upgrading the wheels is a silly idea either which is good! 

    December 15, 2016 at 4:45 pm #883441
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    mrml

    I have the DT Swiss RR21

    I have the DT Swiss RR21 Dicut DB wheels referred to by Ogi above  on my Jamis Renegade.  I think they work really well for road use with 28mm Schwalbe Ones (run tubeless).  I have 15mm and 12mm thru axles but they came with a full set of adaptors.  The build quality appears to be excellent.

     

    My offroad set up for the same bike is American Classic MTB Race 29 Tubeless, run with 40mm Schwalbe G-ones.  They are very very wide and are brilliant offroad with these tyres (pretty good on it too).  Not sure whether they would work with your dropouts though?  

     

    I considered various Hunt wheels, but in the end went for the above for their low weight (both less than 1500g) with relatively high rider weight limits (I weigh 85kgs but wanted some scope to load the bike up with packs/panniers etc. ) Plus I wanted to get the best wheels I could afford.  

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