Can aluminium rim brakes ever be as good as disc brakes in the wet?

Sorry to revive an old thread

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I could not help posting a comment…

I have ridden hydraulic discs (mind you, 8 years old now), TRP Spyre mechanical discs, and Ultegra rim brakes.  I have yet to try modern hydraulic disc brakes.

My first ‘serious’ bike came with Avid Juicy brakes. They were powerful and had a great feel, but there was constant disc rub and nothing worked until I just got fed up and got Shimano brakes. The Shimanos were a lot more forgiving when changing wheels and aligning pads.  The hydraulic discs were better in the wet, but I live in Spain so you can live with slightly weaker braking in the wet for most intents and purposes.

My commuting bike has mechanical disc brakes, and if you neglect them a bit, they can be dangerous in a hurry. They need a set of pads every few months, and regularly adjusting the pad distance. On the other hand, I haven’t done much to the rim brakes in a year and they just work. It’s nothing terrible, just a bit of a faff and easy to forget if you don’t like to do your own repairs.

I ride in far hillier terrain than most in the UK. I descended yesterday a 22 km , 1000 metres of altitude difference mountain pass, and I never missed disc brakes.  Modern Ultegra rim brakes work on par or better than old hydraulic brakes, when used in dry conditions.   Neither me or any of the riders at the club have ever had any issues with rim brake fade or tire blow outs. These things just don’t  happen with modern allow rims.

A major advantage of disc brakes is if you want a ‘one bike to do all’. You get a gravel bike with disc brakes, then a set of 700c wheels with 28-32c tires, and another 27’5″ wheelset with 47 mm gravel king SK, and you’ll be able to do a lot of different stuff with the bike.  Also, with disc brakes you don’t have to worry about your carbon wheels. 

If versatility, ocassional light off-roading , commuting or regularly riding in the rain are part of your plan, then by all means get disc brakes.

If on a tight budget, mechanical discs or something like the TRP Hy/Rd could be an option. 

andrewball wrote:

I woulod like to know why there is a great need to scrub so much speed off so quickly. […]

TLDR; we don’t need to make things better as they are currently tolerable, and if not you’re doing it wrong.

part_robot wrote:

barbarus wrote:

No, they can’t. But why not stick to riding your new bike in the dry and use the disc brake bike in the wet?

i wasn’t planning on having two bikes, but yes – that’s something I was considering.

You’re only considering this? And you call yourself a cyclist? 

Supersix Evo HiMod DA will be a cracking bike, ride it in the summer and take it easy if you get caught in the rain, simples. Synapse for winter and when rain is forecast and you have to ride. If you want to swap wheels about you’ll have issues but applying the right tool for the job is surely going to give you a better outcome. I suggest this will give you more than adequate braking almost all of the time.

Speaking objectively, discs

Speaking objectively, discs make sense. 

The only real reason not to use discs are the expense of moving over and because you don’t like the aesthetics.

Other negatives to consider are the already noted sensitivity of pads to corruption, and the slight weight penalty. 

The postiives;

 – Greater power in all situations, but especially in the wet

 – Greater modulation, which ultimtely means safer braking in all situations

 – lack of rim wear

 – No rim / tyre failure due to braking wear / heat build up

 – will not suffer cable failure or, less dramatically and for more commonly, poor performance due to corrupted / old cables

Whilst I appreciate comments about people reining their necks in and riding safely, better braking allows safer riding in more conditions. 

In short I am fully supportive of discs. I do not have any road discs however as i can’t afford it. Chances are I’ll be OK all the same. 

part_robot wrote:

Thanks HowardR – those are some great points and questions.

I almost exclusively ride hills in Surrey, East Sussex and Kent. Most rides are 1-2km in climbs and short gradients of 10-25% are present. There are hedges and there are crazy young drivers in hot hatches. There are also steep drops!

My discs are QR which means maintaining and setting them up is a real chore versus rim brakes as you say. Additionally they will rub when (very!) hot and will also rub when grubby/wet and cornering sharply due to fork/skewer flex. In reality these are very temporary and minor issues but I will admit that’s an influencing factor in moving to the Super Six (albeit a small one since all of these problems are solved by thru axles I gather?)

Hi Part_Robot 

By the sounds of it my cycling life started in the same area you currently are; Noth Downs, Green sand ridge, High Weald down to the South Downs? 

I can very much see why discs have their attraction – but at the same time why weight saving sounds good. If it were me and my wallet (which it obviously isn’t) I’d be very tempted to go for the two bike option (paritcuarly if a Super Six was one of the two). One with disk brakes & all the paraphenalia of winter ridding & comuting (mudguards, lights fatter tyres e.t.c) and the light weight rim braked mount shod with some good climbing wheels & lightweight tyres for the high days & holidays of summer – but then I’m the sort of person who gets more of a buzz of going up hill as fast as I can rather than the drop down the other side.

And – considerations for the longer term…..Have disc brake standards settled down to a point of consistency yet in terms of Axles, OLN dimensions, disc size, mounting method? I dunno, but it does put me off splashing out too much on anything disc equipped ~ on the flip side it might be that discs have been pushed so hard that within a couple of years anything with rim brakes will fall into the same category as the screw on free wheels & quill stems. 

Have fun with whatever you chose.

huntswheelers wrote:

I guess many factors need to be considered in a balanced way….. personally you choose which you prefer and whether you are in need of the “next big thing” in cycling.

From my perspective from the workshop floor….

How about the additional cost replacing freewheel bearings. thru axles reduce the space available for the bearing, hence bearings sometimes only last 1000 miles maximium.

Cost of organic pads that work best in the dry but disintigrate at the first sign of rain. 

Extra hassle cleaning the bike…. which is subjective to how OCD you are

If rim brakes get splashed with chain lube their performance will not be affected provided the oil is washed off, do the same with disc brakes and another set of pads is required or they don’t work.

Discs require constant heavy use to remove any contaminant, the amount of pads which will be replaced… kerrrchiing….

Dread to think how dangerous disc brakes would be on a road bike in heavy rain.

And finally…. tyres.. can they take the extra loads on heavy braking…. wide MTB tyres spread the load..a set of 23/25’s I have my doubts over

 

My perspective from in the saddle….  I’m sticking with rim brakes and decent pads personally…

Whatever, you pays yer money and takes your choice

Its about braking power not about how long you need to clean them. 

But lets work towards what you said.  I use kevelar pads and they are great both dry and wet and you can get them quite cheaply. 

Clearning discs are even easier (never have to clean them because the discs are always shinny in the contact area). 

before clearning your bike just put a towel over the disc and the pads and you are good to go do whatever cleaning you like (not by jet wash). 

Not sure why disc brakes would be dangerous when it is safer than rim in the rain (I know because I ride rim before I switched to disc). 

I am not really sure why I am bothering with all these arguments when clearly we are going to be all disc in the future.  Just like when I started MTB and the debate of the same but now one one sells rim on MTB bikes. 

It is bewilders me how people’s reluctance to change even when the advantages clearly outweight the cons and by a long way. 

Either stupid or short sighted. I go with both. 

Tyers taking heavy load of braking? MG.  What people come up with next.