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Don’t want to become a “cycle club” – whats wrong with that?

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  • December 1, 2015 at 10:45 pm #25114
    Stef Marazzi

    Hiya, 

    myself and a few people and friends from the neighbouring villages – sometimes anywhere between 3 to 20-odd people (depending on who turns up) have starting regularly going for rides in the local area. We are quite happy doing this, and have absolutely no desire to race (we’re a bit old for that), we just like going for a 35 mile ride every sunday and having a nice chat and a coffee. We all have British Cycling membership to cover us for 3rd party insurance. We dont really have a “ride leader”, we just make a route on Strava, most of us download it to our Garmins and help plod our way round a route. It sounds simple and that is how we like it. A few people have commented that because of our regular Sunday rides, that somehow “we must be a club, and should become a club, because then we’d be insured”. But – we dont want to. We dont want the hassle of a committee, we dont want to collect any subscription money, we dont want to have to start a “club” bank account, we don’t want to bother affiliating to anyone, we don’t want any “club politics”, we really don’t want to be THAT organised.        

     As far as I can see, a “club”, by definition, has to “club together” to pay for membership, such as “club” affiliation to British Cycling or CTC. We dont want to do that. We just want to ride our bikes for 35 miles every Sunday and have a chat. Whats wrong with that? If thats all we want to do – can we just keep doing what we do?

    If we are all members of British Cycling with Ride membership, so are therefore covered for 3rd party insurance in case we somehow ploughed into the back of a car and damaged it, surely thats fine isnt it? I’ve read back to front the terms and conditions of the British Cycling insurance, and basically it seems that as long as you are not racing, you are covered for cycling a bicycle.

    I’d be interested in others opinions, as I bet there are thousands of loosely organised “village group cycling friends” that find themselves in the same position.

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  • December 3, 2015 at 12:59 pm #863575
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    Simon E

    austinpowers wrote:

    austinpowers wrote:
    At least one person in a club near me thinks that you are putting your fellow riders “at risk” if you are not members of a club and therefore not “insured”.

    There are stupid, wilfully ignorant people everywhere so this comes as no surprise. They are easily identified since, like Daily Mail readers, they very quick to spout bollocks as hard facts and are crap at listening to anyone else.

    If someone who rides a bicycle really wants Third Party insurance while cycling I’d advise they check their house and car insurance first; if those do not apply then they could try the £9.50 cover offered by LCC.

    But surely if you are riding as the Highway Code instructs then you could not ever be considered at fault?

    December 3, 2015 at 12:15 pm #863573
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    Stef Marazzi

    Who is the ” Rider Leader” if

    Who is the ” Rider Leader” if everybody has downloaded the route to their Garmins and we all know where we are going?

    December 3, 2015 at 11:25 am #863571
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    austinpowers
    Simon E wrote:
    Would anyone really join a cycling club in the misguided belief that its purpose was to insure themselves in the event of a crash?

    At least one person in a club near me thinks that you are putting your fellow riders “at risk” if you are not members of a club and therefore not “insured”.

     

    December 3, 2015 at 10:36 am #863569
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    Simon E

    cyclesteffer wrote:

    cyclesteffer wrote:
    Wow, thats fascinating. Basically, a lot of the time then, if you are in a club, and paying money every year into it you are actually paying to insure the club officials, and not yourself!

    Would anyone really join a cycling club in the misguided belief that its purpose was to insure themselves in the event of a crash?

    When they say ‘officials’ of course they mean volunteer marshals standing on a windswept roundabout in the rain for hours or the organiser and helpers who pull down signs and barriers long after everyone else has gone home. BC is, after all, a governing body for cycle sport and being a ‘club official’ is not a ticket to an easy life, it’s a posh term for the few putting themselves out to do all the jobs for the benefit of the many. The subs aren’t spent on the committee’s beer quota; any affiliated club has to pay an annual fee to BC – and possibly CTT – as well as other costs, of which the membership are blissfully ignorant.

    December 3, 2015 at 8:38 am #863567
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    austinpowers

    What is a “ride leader”? Is

    What is a “ride leader”? Is it the person that hits the dog first?

    December 3, 2015 at 12:05 am #863565
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    AJ101

    The insurance issue is the

    The insurance issue is the potential pitfall. If there’s an accident on a ride and a private healthcare company looks to get it’s money back from what they percieve to be the ‘ride leader’ on the day does the British Cycling 3rd party insurance cover ride leading? 

    Our club enquired about this and our organisers were covered because of the club affiliation rather than the individual 3rd party cover.

    You’ll want to enquire to find out exactly if this is the case for you guys, but if it is then CTC affiliation will probably be less hassle than BC affiliation if you do choose to go down the formal route.

    December 2, 2015 at 11:03 pm #863563
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    Stef Marazzi

    Wow, that fascinating.

    Wow, thats fascinating. Basically, a lot of the time then, if you are in a club, and paying money every year into it you are actually paying to insure the club officials, and not yourself! That’s mad! You are actually better of with individual British cycling Ride membership instead! (Or the CTC equivalent) At least you cover yourself! Thanks for all the comments, I think we are definitely doing the right thing NOT wanting to be a club!

    December 2, 2015 at 10:45 pm #863561
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    Simon E

    If you don’t want to form a

    If you don’t want to form a club then don’t. Tell the busybodies: “on yer bike”.

    You don’t need TP insurance but I can understand the wish to have some form of legal cover. The creation of an organisation only covers the club officials for public liability; one of the exclusions on BC’s page on insurance is: “Individual club members (as opposed to club officials) are not covered unless they themselves are Ride, Silver or Gold members of British Cycling with personal liability insurance cover.”

    The only thing I’d suggest is that you ensure group riding discipline and consideration for other road users are maintained.

    December 2, 2015 at 5:21 pm #863559
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    allanj

    £94 and we’d have to get our

    £94 and we’d have to get our (fantastic) kit approved!!

    December 2, 2015 at 11:48 am #863557
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    Man of Lard

    I recently dropped out of the

    I recently dropped out of the local village ride group here for exactly this reason – that one person (who liked to think of himself as the ‘leader’) started to impose (for want of a better term) “regulations” for taking part arbritrarily and riding on public roads. 

     

    Bear in mind this was a group of 4 (maximum) chaps, often 3, sometimes even 2 just out for a Sunday morning bimble. All individually insured. Now they’ve lost 25% of the regular attendees.

     

    In the email announcing this to me (and he knew only I was going to take issue) he said there’d been pressure from the other “members” (of a club that I had no idea I’d joined, and nor did the other two) to impose it. Both confirmed to me that they had not agitated in any way to impose any conditions.

     

    I still go out on a Sunday morning and since pulling out of the clique, I notice that they are riding even more slowly than before and not as far. Maybe that’s the reason for the regulations being introduced…. hmmmmm

     

    Their loss, not mine.

    December 2, 2015 at 11:47 am #863555
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    Martyn_K

    It’s a tough one this and a

    It’s a tough one this and a decision that my club had a assess only a few years ago. You are right to excersise caution as generally once you step on to the road of officialdom it is very difficult to get off. 

    There is nothing wrong with casual/ social clubs but there is a risk, however small, of being an unorganised (forgive this terminology) group.

    One of the deciding factors for us becoming affiliated and going through all of the official club processes was litigation. As a casual group we cycled varied routes and as with any outdoor activity a certain amount of risk is involved. As a group we were confident that if someone had an accident there would be no comeback to others in the group. However we could not have the same confidence that members of the public would be the same.

    Lets create a hypothetical situation. You are in a good size group, say 10 riders. All descending a hill at what you feel is a controlled speed but using all of your lane. On a bend one of your group flows out towards the white centre line and an oncoming car driver is spooked and swerves. That car crashes, injuring the driver who then can’t work for a good period of time.

    The driver decides that the blame should lie with the cycists (i know, i know) and sues. As an individual you have limited cover in this sort of situation but you would also have a great deal of stress dealing with the issue. As an organised club there are services provided with affiliation that can aide both the club and members involved in a case like this.

    Official club status, affiliation and insurances are generally not required day to day. But they do offer stability in worst case scenarios.

    December 2, 2015 at 10:41 am #863553
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    allanj

    What you do sounds exactly

    What you do sounds exactly like what we do.  We have club kit but no bank account, AGMs, office bearers etc etc.

     

    It never occured to me that we as a group would need any kind of insurance- if one of us causes damage to something/someone that is their responsibilty and I can’t see how it would be the club’s.  

    December 2, 2015 at 8:56 am #863551
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    Cyclespeed Tours

    Cyclesteffer, I support you

    Cyclesteffer, I support you wholeheartedly in this.

    What has happened to a bunch of mates meeting up and going for a ride?

    Since when did insurance and lawyers come into it?

    It is almost better to be informal as you are, then noone can point the finger of blame.  There is no ride leader, so it’s noone’s ‘fault’ if there’s an accident.

    And you all have 3rd party insurance anyway.

    People need to accept that riding a bicycle is potentially dangerous – you could fall off. And riding in a peloton is even more dangerous – you could fall off through no fault of your own – but that’s just the way it is. Accept it. Or we’ll all become to scared too ride through fear of litigation.

    The only winners? Lawyers.

    December 2, 2015 at 7:08 am #863549
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    CXR94Di2

    Our club just had their agm.
    Our club just had their agm. In that meeting it was highlighted that Sunday club rides were to properly run..meaning those that tagged along but weren’t members are only allowed 3 rides then must join the club. Also leaders must be registered with BC so that leader insurance covers them incase an accident takes place and the other rider decided to sue the leader. Pretty much all adults in our club have become a leader at some point.

    I suppose as long as all riders accept their own responsibility and undertake not to sue any other rider then you don’t need to be a club. Accidents can/do happen, can you guarantee that not one rider would litigate in the case of a serious accident?

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